General Discussion

qazplm135

(7,591 posts)

64. I mean when you start reducing it

Mon Dec 30, 2024, 07:37 PM

Dec 30

Down to "men" it's hard to fairly get upset if others engage in similar reductionism.

The why people voted for Trump or against Harris is going to depend on the people involved.

Some were racist. Some were sexist. Some were uneducated and easily mislead by media, friends, or simply angry stuff costs more and blamed whomever was in charge without any deeper thoughts than that. Some wanted abortion gone, or believed immigration was a problem, or want to pay less taxes.

It's not just "men," or "women" or even "white people." Some of each group voted for Trump, some didn't. Slightly more did than didn't. Last time slightly more didn't. Time before slightly more didn't but the EC fell against us.

It all really boils down to an electorate that is largely disengaged at anything past the feels level in politics. They are constantly unhappy. Thus we see the back and forth see saw between party control. We will see it again in 26 and 28.

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Highlight:

Why do men hate women so much? [View all] Brenda Dec 30 OP

Insecurity SocialDemocrat61 Dec 30 #1

Jinx! Iggo Dec 30 #3

What are they insecure about? Irish_Dem Dec 30 #4

Everything SocialDemocrat61 Dec 30 #5

Yes but he is seriously mentally ill. Irish_Dem Dec 30 #66

Healthy men are not likely insecure. JanMichael Dec 30 #72

Looks like we have a lot of unhealthy men. Irish_Dem Dec 30 #79

I know Rebl2 Dec 30 #134

But there aren't that many healthy men SocialDemocrat61 Dec 30 #76

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Dec 30 #82

I'm not sure I'd even go for %50. dchill Dec 30 #88

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Dec 30 #90

No they are not SocialDemocrat61 Dec 30 #92

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Dec 30 #93

As is you're right SocialDemocrat61 Dec 30 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Dec 30 #99

Good for you SocialDemocrat61 Dec 30 #102

"What are healthy men insecure about?" Dave Bowman Dec 31 #228

Yes only psychopaths would force pregnant women to die slow tortuous deaths. Irish_Dem Dec 31 #230

+1 Dave Bowman Dec 31 #236

Jobs, just not wanting the "traditional" lifestyle JI7 Dec 30 #6

Most American men would not have a roof over their heads if their wife didn't bring in a paycheck. Ferrets are Cool Dec 31 #186

From what I see in the young manosphere on the net, musette_sf Dec 31 #261

Depends on the man. Iggo Dec 30 #7

What are some of the things they are insecure about? Irish_Dem Dec 30 #68

It's about control Docreed2003 Dec 30 #59

If women are inferior, men can feel superior? Irish_Dem Dec 30 #70

BINGO Irish Dem. Diamond_Dog Dec 30 #98

Probably a lot of that, plus all the other men who control THEM makes some mighty insecure Attilatheblond Dec 30 #152

It's about culture...it's not different from racism in that respect. Trueblue Texan Dec 31 #189

Women can create a new life, men can't. That makes them feel inferior therefore they hate us. Walleye Dec 30 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Dec 30 #84

I have to disagree with you Walleye. Diamond_Dog Dec 30 #97

Anthropologically, slightlv Dec 30 #109

I read a book a long while back that this was the theory. Women bled every month, somehow ended up pregnant. mucholderthandirt Dec 31 #170

Boys have to go through some kind of rite of passage at adolescence. Walleye Dec 31 #207

It makes sense to me that the patriarchy was born when humans became aware of men's role in reproduction. CrispyQ Dec 31 #213

Yes, that's the way I see it, they are actually afraid of our power Walleye Dec 31 #172

That's some of it Jilly_in_VA Dec 31 #222

ayup, everything you list *IS* power! bluboid Dec 31 #232

Is this a serious question? JanMichael Dec 30 #69

Women have a right to know the answer to the question. Irish_Dem Dec 30 #75

Not a woman but I think many of the things I mentioned are reasons JanMichael Dec 30 #95

People who put down systematically other groups of people soldierant Dec 30 #104

Same reason white men put down POC? Irish_Dem Dec 31 #174

Same reason any group puts down any other group. Always. Forever. soldierant Jan 1 #286

Your thesis is proven by the current incel backlash: Women don't need men and so the less desirables are rejected. lindysalsagal Jan 3 #294

I think it's something primal. intheflow Dec 30 #113

Holy shit BlueSpot Dec 30 #160

Naw, not a scientist. intheflow Dec 31 #175

That's close to what I have heard/read Bob_in_VA Dec 31 #214

100% all of this, and intheflow Dec 31 #217

Thanks for joining in BlueSpot Dec 31 #266

A couple thousand BC was when war and territory acquisition became possible with warship technology lindysalsagal Jan 3 #293

Women's physical condition was weaker in a primitive society. Irish_Dem Dec 31 #176

Exactly! intheflow Dec 31 #177

Except the idea men were the hunters has been dismissed and been proven out women were very LizBeth Jan 1 #278

Very good. malthaussen Dec 31 #235

Because they no longer own them. It's a loss of status. Beck23 Dec 31 #201

Yes. As if they're suddenly competing with their dairy cows for jobs. Scrivener7 Dec 31 #216

Vagina envy? wnylib Dec 30 #35

I never thought I would see folks here arguing the superiority of one set of genitalia over the other. PeaceWave Dec 30 #101

You are taking my comment way too literally. wnylib Dec 30 #127

Freud/fraud.... I never could keep that straight Attilatheblond Dec 30 #156

LOL. I think that his own subjectivity crept into his conclusions. wnylib Dec 31 #168

Yep. Da man had issues Attilatheblond Dec 31 #187

I never thought I would live in a country Hope22 Dec 30 #158

And how 'bout them multiple orgasms, with no rest between needed? Attilatheblond Dec 30 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author Irish_Dem Dec 31 #178

Done in one -misanthroptimist Dec 31 #183

Basically ThePartyThatListens Jan 1 #287

Insecurity. (n/t) Iggo Dec 30 #2

Why didn't women vote for either Hillary or Kamala? Yavin4 Dec 30 #8

Nine minutes Brenda Dec 30 #13

Then work on the indoctrinated. Yavin4 Dec 30 #17

Men voted in higher %s for Trump than did women, in every racial/ethnic category. spooky3 Dec 30 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Dec 30 #85

So all the exit polls say. And if you don't like those, Pew will likely publish its Validated Voter study in the next spooky3 Dec 30 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Dec 30 #107

The table here that is labeled "the gender gap..." may be of interest: spooky3 Dec 30 #111

What's up with all the conspiracies lately? Polybius Dec 30 #116

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Jan 1 #267

It was in reply to Chin Music's post Polybius Jan 1 #268

no, work on MEN Brenda Dec 30 #74

Work on men by leading with the statement "Why do men hate women so much?" PeaceWave Dec 30 #112

No it is not effective, nor are facts. Go figure. LizBeth Jan 1 #279

That's a rather broad brush SickOfTheOnePct Dec 30 #18

I mean when you start reducing it qazplm135 Dec 30 #64

Men are also indoctrinated by the same patriarchal society EdmondDantes_ Dec 30 #114

Ty for pointing out genuine progress. Unfortunately Drumphf inflamed a whole bunch of men who do hate women. electric_blue68 Dec 30 #142

If, when, how many and with whom Freddie Dec 31 #185

An inconvenient truth...45% of women voted for Trump over Kamala. PeaceWave Dec 30 #21

92% of Black Women JustAnotherGen Dec 30 #45

Leave black folks out of this mess. Keepthesoulalive Dec 30 #53

Amen JustAnotherGen Dec 30 #144

An important number Beringia Dec 30 #55

And a lower percent of black men voted for Harris and Clinton than Biden and Obama. LizBeth Jan 1 #282

78% voted for Harris JustAnotherGen Jan 1 #288

It's true, and it's so disappointing Alice Kramden Dec 30 #132

Thank you.n/t Yavin4 Dec 30 #154

Men hate women because they're women. Women hate other women because they're jealous. CousinIT Dec 31 #238

It's a girl. I am sorry. Maybe next time. As a society we are told from the day we are born LizBeth Jan 1 #280

Apologies Just Jerome Dec 30 #9

A few yrs ago, I wasn't sure what runs deeper in our country: racism or sexism? FlyingPiggy Dec 30 #10

That's been clear Sky Jewels Dec 30 #162

Absolutely, sexism is the much larger problem. Clouds Passing Dec 31 #239

Sexism is also not addressed, discussed or acted upon as much as racism, it seems like. CousinIT Jan 1 #285

I totally agree w that. We don't talk about it nearly as much as racism. FlyingPiggy Jan 3 #290

I don't really know. Sexism seems to be accepted - even by women - more than racism. CousinIT Jan 3 #292

Some men I suspect can't handle strong women. My uncle was like that. He treated his wife like crap, SWBTATTReg Dec 30 #11

I'm a man and I don't hate women Unladen Swallow Dec 30 #12

Likewise. anciano Dec 30 #14

Me three. But, I've noticed some folks here like to make blanket statements about men. Oh well. PeaceWave Dec 30 #16

We can homegirl Dec 30 #22

Yes. Adjectives matter. But, some people seem to hate them so much. PeaceWave Dec 30 #26

Understood.... anciano Dec 30 #48

Should have used "some men". Not all. multigraincracker Dec 30 #25

Interesting correlation Unladen Swallow Dec 30 #34

After an accident and a botched surgery mine got down to 79. multigraincracker Dec 30 #41

Critical info for a man to have Unladen Swallow Dec 31 #244

Exactly. Seems to me that B.See Dec 30 #32

Treat this as with anything else xmas74 Dec 30 #42

This. I don't take offense to the white woman things, because I am not, nor have I ever been a typical white woman. onecaliberal Dec 30 #124

And there have been occassion when I myself say I am so fucking tired of white women. LizBeth Jan 1 #281

I'm a man too, but I don't get mad about the statement. I think it's clearly speaking from statistical likelihood. Lucky Luciano Dec 30 #63

Are you able to distinguish yourself as apart intheflow Dec 31 #242

Let's see if I can get banned bucolic_frolic Dec 30 #15

Actually, no. Biophilic Dec 30 #24

It was not a qualitative post. It was about winning elections. /nt bucolic_frolic Dec 30 #43

Yes, exactly, it was and is about winning elections. Biophilic Dec 30 #61

Margaret Thatcher was born in 1925 same as my mom. sheshe2 Dec 30 #39

No I think we need to exude confidence, control, and certainty bucolic_frolic Dec 30 #46

ya know what bugs me? stilettos. mopinko Dec 31 #193

If necessary, America can just drop dead, figuratively speaking lostnfound Dec 30 #44

What's wrong with how Kamala dressed? iemanja Dec 30 #54

Jeez, I hate myself for making this statement. To my mind there was nothing wrong with either wardrobe. But..... EarnestPutz Dec 30 #83

Paid a price based on wardrobe? iemanja Dec 30 #117

Al Gore was a man and received similar treatment re how he dressed. delisen Dec 31 #180

Did Vice President Harris wear clothing that was "unfit for the boardroom" thucythucy Dec 31 #254

Seems strange, doesn't it? I can clearly remember the crusade against the ERA walkingman Dec 30 #19

Thanks for a good reply walkingman Brenda Dec 30 #28

I didn't make my thoughts clear.... walkingman Dec 30 #50

I think that's a very astute observation walkingman. Buddyzbuddy Dec 30 #110

i'm not sute that "hate" is the order of things rampartd Dec 30 #60

It should be remembered that the "Crusade against the ERA"... regnaD kciN Dec 30 #65

Thank you. Exactly - and she was successful in defeating it. walkingman Dec 30 #78

And yet she wasn't nurturing and loving her children. SharonAnn Dec 30 #91

No, she was not. North Shore Chicago Dec 31 #184

They're scared of you. paleotn Dec 30 #20

Not sure to or of whom you are speaking Unladen Swallow Dec 30 #37

Does the shoe fit? paleotn Dec 31 #226

Anger? Lol. Unladen Swallow Dec 31 #245

Modification of the old Bard... paleotn Dec 31 #260

All the wanna-be Alpha males can't compete on a level playing field. Can't cope; they've been shielded so long. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 30 #23

Their alpha male bullshit only works on other men. Iggo Dec 30 #30

The whole binary gender thing is weird. Think. Again. Dec 30 #27

Hey MAGA! Want more American engineers, fewer H-1B? Educate women, mentor them, and pay them the same. ERA. . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 30 #29

When one's only sense of power or accomplishment depends on another's subjugation... Reader Rabbit Dec 30 #31

Perfectly stated. Scrivener7 Dec 30 #51

Succinct and Astute Observation! Haveadream Dec 31 #167

Technically, these aren't my own words. Reader Rabbit Dec 31 #198

Thank you for that! Haveadream Dec 31 #249

Male patriarchy PortTack Dec 30 #33

Weak men hate women. PittBlue Dec 30 #36

Lots of strong men do too. Scrivener7 Dec 30 #52

Phyllis Schlafly. The Unmitigated Gall Dec 30 #38

Because the worst man is instantly better than half the population. Intractable Dec 30 #40

Pfft. wnylib Dec 30 #49

This is a supremely bigoted statement in my view and demonstrates and defines, if anything, hatred itself. NNadir Dec 30 #47

Why are men's feelings so much more important than iemanja Dec 30 #56

This message was self-deleted by its author anciano Dec 30 #80

Lol iemanja Dec 30 #118

Yes. Let's attack each other based on gender - despite the fact that all of us here voted for Kamala. PeaceWave Dec 30 #120

Equal rights iemanja Dec 30 #122

OP specifically asked "Why did so many male Dems and Independents not vote for Harris?" PeaceWave Dec 30 #126

I since edited my post iemanja Dec 30 #131

My only priority is to see folks here argue effectively with one another. Generalities and scapegoating don't help... PeaceWave Dec 30 #135

Therefore not equal rights iemanja Dec 30 #147

"Considering your appropriate correction of my point about Republican me" Abolishinist Dec 30 #159

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Dec 30 #161

A strange way to have fun? Abolishinist Dec 30 #163

This is not about women's rights, which all decent people - and there are lots of men who qualify - emphatically support NNadir Dec 30 #145

It is about women's rights iemanja Dec 30 #146

Less offensive if OP said some? Ilikepurple Dec 31 #164

Are you a man? róisín_dubh Dec 31 #169

Nope obamanut2012 Dec 31 #200

Except women live it from the day they are born, but not allowed a conversation? LizBeth Jan 1 #283

Men and women rso Dec 30 #58

power over a perceived "weaker" sex? I have no idea. I don't see any difference but obviously millions do. Evolve Dammit Dec 30 #62

That is beyond my understanding of the male nature. Lunabell Dec 30 #71

My theory is men hate women because they know they need us to perpetuate humanity Walleye Dec 30 #73

Hoo boy would THAT be a hoot! Diamond_Dog Dec 30 #106

I've wondered about this too 4catsmom Dec 30 #77

Study Mexico where men voted in a woman president in 2024 delisen Dec 30 #81

I think POTUS is unique. They don't think a woman can be the leader of the free world and commander-in-chief of the most Walleye Dec 30 #87

Maybe it has to do with the nature of iemanja Dec 30 #119

I don't think our military power is regarded in the way it was post WWIi delisen Dec 30 #130

I will believe it when it happens, not before Walleye Dec 31 #171

This is always brought up in these conversations. It's like saying Scrivener7 Dec 30 #125

Not sure I understand your meaning delisen Dec 30 #136

Recent events prove we can't achieve that. Scrivener7 Dec 30 #139

How do you think recent events prove that we can,t achieve that anytime soon? delisen Dec 31 #250

Seriously? I bet you can figure that out. Scrivener7 Dec 31 #257

I figure there is no proof. delisen Jan 1 #272

You do you, dear. Scrivener7 Jan 1 #275

She's also bucking a rather dismal trend TheProle Dec 31 #243

Yes it is the slowest rate of growth as the authoaritarian trend is worldwide. delisen Jan 1 #273

Mexico votes more by party than personality LeftInTX Jan 1 #270

Both major party candidates were women. delisen Jan 1 #274

Mexican American men supported Kamala more than white men did. Elessar Zappa Jan 3 #298

Yeah, but I saw it here. LeftInTX Jan 3 #299

I live in New Mexico. Elessar Zappa Jan 3 #300

I know most of the people that I've mentioned. With the exception of the 21 yo LeftInTX Jan 3 #302

That is a very interesting perspective. Thank you. nt delisen Jan 4 #304

Yes but... róisín_dubh Jan 1 #271

The question could be cate94 Dec 30 #86

??? The Third Doctor Dec 30 #89

Wonder this often cally Dec 30 #94

It's not hate, it's patriarchy. pandr32 Dec 30 #100

Same thing. You can't have the patriarchy without the hate. Scrivener7 Dec 30 #123

Mysogyny and patriarchy do seem to dovetail. pandr32 Dec 31 #221

Replicating patriarchy requires hatred. It may be unexamined but it is still hatred. Scrivener7 Dec 31 #259

And lots of women benefit from the patriarchy Freddie Dec 31 #211

To say lots of women benefit from patriarchy... SunSeeker Dec 31 #220

Agree, but they don't see beyond themselves to realize that Freddie Dec 31 #233

Because the hot ones turned them down for prom, meadowlander Dec 30 #103

Some men treat women like dirt and others don't know how to behave and don't have females in their lives. rickford66 Dec 30 #108

Oh they do.... they really do. And seeing it more now that ever before in my lifetime. LizBeth Dec 30 #115

I can only speak for myself, but I certainly don't Polybius Dec 30 #121

* some Oopsie Daisy Dec 30 #128

Thank you. Last time I checked, exit polls showed that 44% of men voted for Kamala. PeaceWave Dec 30 #129

You're all overthinking it. usonian Dec 30 #133

Yup. Religion. SheltieLover Dec 31 #256

This thread shows that MOST men just don't get it. Scrivener7 Dec 30 #137

Not playing DFW Dec 30 #138

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Dec 30 #141

This message was self-deleted by its author Abolishinist Dec 30 #150

Short answer... Bread and Circuses Dec 30 #140

Sometimes, you see the thread title, the OP flvegan Dec 30 #143

Only if "epic" is defined as pitting Dems against each other in a way that Trumpers must love. PeaceWave Dec 30 #149

Loving the early 90s energy, tho Sympthsical Dec 31 #166

I wonder if the people who so object to this thread iemanja Dec 30 #148

once women demonstrate their excellence in power, the cat will be out of the bag cadoman Dec 30 #151

You say "they stopped Harris." Who is "they" when 45% of women voted for Trump? PeaceWave Dec 30 #153

For the same reason they hate other races, religions, etc. chowmama Dec 30 #157

When the worst qualified white man Blue_Tires Dec 31 #165

Gratuitous, pointless man-bashing. Paladin Dec 31 #173

You are missing the point. Consider the difference between the rights of women and the Scrivener7 Dec 31 #181

I agree with your comments. And I stand by mine. (nt) Paladin Dec 31 #196

Then you don't actually agree with my comments. Scrivener7 Dec 31 #197

Castle Rock v. Gonzales H2O Man Dec 31 #248

What is the proportion of restraining orders against husbands by wives versus against wives by husbands? Scrivener7 Dec 31 #258

It is true H2O Man Dec 31 #262

Indeed, the broad brush strikes again. Patton French Dec 31 #188

Sex and women make men incredibly vulnerable. leftyladyfrommo Dec 31 #179

because everything bad in the world is Eve's fault PedroXimenez Dec 31 #182

No ERA and widespread mainstream sexism in our faces everyday Quiet Em Dec 31 #190

Should that be "American men"? viva la Dec 31 #191

Patriarchy rules the globe. CrispyQ Dec 31 #203

Try watching this guy. Linda ladeewolf Dec 31 #192

He does a series on this topic. Linda ladeewolf Dec 31 #194

Well, I voted for Kamala Harris, and so did many of my male friends. MineralMan Dec 31 #195

I agree with Mineral Man Klondike Kat Dec 31 #199

I'm glad you posted this Dem4life1234 Dec 31 #202

Another thing Dem4life1234 Dec 31 #204

Because they are intimidated. They also are idiots. OLDMDDEM Dec 31 #205

This message was self-deleted by its author CentralMass Dec 31 #206

It's one of the reasons Dem4life1234 Dec 31 #208

It would be nice to see more of this Quiet Em Dec 31 #209

This is a rightwing propaganda framing. Voltaire2 Dec 31 #210

Another issue I see is that some women /and men WANT to be controlled... TrunKated Dec 31 #212

Perhaps it's the same reason that racists are so full of fear from the "other" -- it's because they are afraid OMGWTF Dec 31 #215

We finally achieved approval from the requisite number of states Mblaze Dec 31 #218

We live in a patriarchy, which is a hierarchy, and therefore MUST have a group of people, women, to oppress. valleyrogue Dec 31 #219

I just watched a movie called Nu-Shu, a hidden language of women in China Beringia Dec 31 #223

Mama didn't love them enough kimbutgar Dec 31 #224

Whatever the reason it's time to stop redqueen Dec 31 #225

Happy New Year, redqueen! Nice to see you. I'll check those out. Scrivener7 Jan 1 #277

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 31 #227

It's about 'being the boss'. Joinfortmill Dec 31 #229

Because there is enmity between his seed and her seed. Festivito Dec 31 #231

I think it is safe to blame the Judeo-Christian "creation" fable LeftyLucie Dec 31 #234

There was patriarchy in sub-Saharan Africa that weren't Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. Elessar Zappa Dec 31 #263

There were also many matrileneal societies in both sub-Sharan Africa and among Indigenous folks in America and elsewhere LeftyLucie Dec 31 #265

Sure, there were some matrilineal societies. Elessar Zappa Jan 3 #297

Why did so many Dems and Independents *not* vote against DJT? malthaussen Dec 31 #237

I'm proud that I'm not one of them. I voted for Harris and Clinton. What a better world it would be if they had won. OverBurn Dec 31 #240

Indoctrination of Little Boys IroningBored Dec 31 #241

In my female life I've found older men respect women more than do younger men. Younger men allegorical oracle Dec 31 #246

The possibility of the mail in ballots cast by men The Wizard Dec 31 #247

For a lot of them, these men can't bear the idea of possibly being dominated no_hypocrisy Dec 31 #251

My first thought was the Book of Genesis. SleeplessinSoCal Dec 31 #252

Overgeneralize and get 250 responses. EarnestPutz Dec 31 #253

Scared... Godot51 Dec 31 #255

Religion. alarimer Dec 31 #264

Because we as a society... Chemical Bill Jan 1 #269

I think the differences between men's and women's responses to this question give a big part of the answer. Scrivener7 Jan 1 #276

Part 2 of my rant no_hypocrisy Jan 1 #284

Men supported Hillary Clinton in 2016. C0RI0LANUS Jan 1 #289

Today I read that the Taliban have banned windows where women could be seen Babajida Jan 3 #291

i heard about this on an am radio news break yesterday when i was in the car orleans Jan 3 #295

Insecurity+Ingrained culture Elessar Zappa Jan 3 #296

Because these men are afraid women will get enough power one day to treat men like how men treat women. Oneironaut Jan 3 #301

It's about power and control GoreWon2000 Jan 3 #303