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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy do men hate women so much?
Since the passing of Jimmy Carter I was reading about Rosalynn and came across this:
Almost half a century since then and we still have no ERA but we have mainstream news discussing Kamala's laugh and shoes instead of discussing her policies for homeowners and grocery prices.
Why did so many male Dems and Independents not vote for Harris?
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SocialDemocrat61
(3,198 posts)and fragile egos.
Irish_Dem
(61,488 posts)How do women threaten them?
SocialDemocrat61
(3,198 posts)Just look at Trump
Irish_Dem
(61,488 posts)What are healthy men insecure about?
JanMichael
(25,368 posts)Irish_Dem
(61,488 posts)For women to be second class citizens for so long, and it is getting bad again currently,
there must be a lot of men who don't feel good about themselves.
my husband champions women. He thinks women, for the most part, are smarter than most men. The exception would be several republican women, like MTG, Bobert, and Susan Collin’s, for example.
SocialDemocrat61
(3,198 posts)And the few that are vote for democrats.
Response to SocialDemocrat61 (Reply #76)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
dchill
(40,966 posts)But I'm in a heavily Republican area.
Response to dchill (Reply #88)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
SocialDemocrat61
(3,198 posts)They pretend that they are but really are not.
Response to SocialDemocrat61 (Reply #92)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
SocialDemocrat61
(3,198 posts)But I'm not going to deny reality.
Response to SocialDemocrat61 (Reply #96)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
SocialDemocrat61
(3,198 posts)Have a nice day 
Dave Bowman
(4,191 posts)I wouldn't call them healthy, hating women like what we're seeing is a mental illness. That being said these idiots can all go to hell.
Irish_Dem
(61,488 posts)And make it a crime to save the life of a female.
Make no mistake, if there is a hell, these men will go directly to hell for eternity.
JI7
(91,117 posts)where women's future depended on the finances of the guy she married.
Ferrets are Cool
(22,076 posts) 
musette_sf
(10,341 posts)Half of them want the woman to do all the domestic work and emotional support AND have a full time job AND what’s his is his and what’s hers is his…
and the other half want the woman to do all the domestic work and emotional support AND stay out of the workplace or most other public places for that matter AND have no friends or outside interests.
I am increasingly disturbed by the increase in the number of young men seeking out misogynistic theocratic environments. It’s like they saw The Handmaid’s Tale and decided that being a Commander, or even a Guardian, was a pretty sweet deal: worship and obey, and get your job and wife all set up and assigned to you. And conversely at the same time, young women are leaving those environments en masse. They’ve seen The Handmaid’s Tale and they know how it starts out. Nothing changes instantly: in a gradually heating bathtub you’d be boiled to death before you knew it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/23/us/young-men-religion-gen-z.html?unlocked_article_code=1.lk4.y7MT._D6MteIkLo00&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
(NB: I so hate those names being used for the former Redskins and Indians. I think there was a certain amount to it of FY, women, we know you know and we’re going to do it anyway. These names are market researched and tested to the max, and there’s no way that no one along the way said Um, don’t you think that’s just a little too THT? Just a bit too deliberate to qualify as coincidence IMHO.)
Iggo
(48,669 posts)It’s always something.
Irish_Dem
(61,488 posts)
Docreed2003
(17,981 posts)Power and control...for these types of men, they view women as their subservient robots whose purpose is to serve their every need.
Irish_Dem
(61,488 posts)And they can feel powerful when they have control over women?
Diamond_Dog
(35,561 posts)
Attilatheblond
(4,880 posts)Some just have to be bossy, demanding, pushy to women just to drown their frustration at the men who boss them around.
And, it seems more than a few still harbor a lot of anger at their mothers. While going thru a nasty divorce, I asked the soon to be ex: Just what is it I did that was so wrong? Response: "You wouldn't let me bring home friends from school"! Yeah, that was a pretty big Ah-HA moment for me.
Trueblue Texan
(3,112 posts)It's about one generation teaching, showing the next how they really feel about equality. This includes the women that influence young males. We can't blame it all on the men. Women have a lot to do with how their son's attitudes are shaped. It's about the roles that women AND men unconsciously play that influence those young males and the young females in their lives. It's who we are as a culture. If we ever expect it to change, we ALL have to become aware, realize how we contribute, and consciously change.
Walleye
(37,016 posts)It’s always been my theory anyway
Response to Walleye (Reply #67)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Diamond_Dog
(35,561 posts)I’ve never met a man who was envious of giving birth. Most of them wish they didn’t have to deal with it at all, but women are now insisting because well, it’s their kid, too.
I think it’s all about power and control. Men don’t want a woman who is above a man’s status or smarter or more accomplished than they are. Many men still think we are frail little ninnies who shouldn’t worry our pretty little heads over “man things” like being in charge of a country.
slightlv
(4,654 posts)that was always the answer we were presented with. It's not just that men can't have children, if they could most men wouldn't do it because of the pain and hassle. But in the days when it wasn't known how babies were conceived, it was woman "magic" that she could grow and bear children. If she could do this, what else could she do... especially TO men? That was later tweaked to her being spiritually higher than men. I think the thought could have been, if women are so special the Creator gave them the ability to have children, then of course it's up to us menfolk to rule everything else, including the women, themselves. Makes no sense, but I can sure see it from a male's POV.
I think it all started with fear... if women could grow babies, what else could they do TO us? Fear leads to hate... hate leads to the dark side (gryn). Regardless, it's like it's written in men's genes and passed down from one generation to the next by default. Only those who are strong men, who are given to critical thinking and general kindness can shake it and treat women the way everyone should be treated. JMO.
mucholderthandirt
(1,257 posts)Women had some kind of magic to do all of this, and how could a man know she wasn't lying about only being with him? Why should he have to support her and her offspring, they probably weren't his! This eventually led to the belief that women had to be monogamous, while men could spread it around, since the woman made her own babies.
Or some such crazy. Men were also, in general, more violent and moody (which led to women being hysterical part of the month, so she couldn't be trusted).
I suspect back in the day women ran the tribe while the men were sent out to do the hard stuff, like hunting and protecting the tribe. It would make sense, in a separation of skillsets way, for a harmonious and healthy tribe. But I'd guess that didn't set well with the males, and eventually we got patrionymic religion and then everything went to hell.
Or, whatever. My mind likes to make up storylines, and sometimes I even get around to writing them. 
Walleye
(37,016 posts)They think they need to do this to become men. Usually it involves drawing blood. We just begin to bleed spontaneously so we don’t have to prove we are women.
CrispyQ
(38,788 posts)Men wanted to control that, control the DNA of their offspring, although we didn't know about DNA back then, it's what drives us. So men conveniently set up systems, including God, to control women. It was easy since we're at a physical disadvantage in so many ways, physical strength, risk of pregnancy, times of pregnancy, & the threat of sexual violence throughout our lives. Some patriarchal cultures might be more egalitarian than others but they're all based on men asserting control over women.
I think alot of the current male hate & anger is just a whole bunch of men really pissed off about birth control because when you take away a woman's control of her reproductive cycle, you take away her control of her life. You can no longer keep her barefoot & pregnant. Also, we're just as smart & capable as any of them & we're proving it out in the working world, & a whole bunch of them are threatened by that, too.
You have a great screen name! A friend of mine is writing a sci-fi dystopian feminist story called The Broken Chromosome. I barely remember 10th grade biology but when she tells me about her research it's fascinating.
Walleye
(37,016 posts)But I am thinking anthropologically like you said
Jilly_in_VA
(11,337 posts)Women bleed every month without dying.
Women give birth, while men can't.
Women are not physically strong, so they've learned to work together.
That's a few things.
bluboid
(733 posts)JanMichael
(25,368 posts)Jobs, not being deferential to the male gaze, not being subservient, not getting laid often by random partners just for being male, not being seen as high value men, being more educated, financial independence, etcetera etcetera etcetera.
Irish_Dem
(61,488 posts)They are the ones who get the brunt of male insecurities.
Women know they get knocked around physically and emotionally by men.
And today especially have a target on their backs.
But they don't know exactly what the hell is going on with men that they should get this treatment.
JanMichael
(25,368 posts)Reasons that men that are unhealthy would say, if honest, as to why they are unhealthy in terms of relationships and views of women.
soldierant
(8,109 posts)are always afraid that those groups they put down will do the same to them if they ever get the chance.
To particularize: Men are terrified that if women are allowed to be treated equally they will institute women systematically putting men down.
They qon't believe the contrary because they are convinced that women as a group are just as vindictive as they are. Because they cannot imagine any other mindset.
Irish_Dem
(61,488 posts)soldierant
(8,109 posts)
lindysalsagal
(22,454 posts)And they go online and foment female hatred.
intheflow
(29,149 posts)Cavemen were awed and scared of cavewomen’s ability to lose a lot of blood every month and not die, and also to bring forth life and then feed new life from their own bodies. Gods bring life and death. Many early civilizations worshipped goddesses. In many Indigenous cultures, women kept/keep the wisdom/knowledge of what plants can and can’t be eaten, and which have healing powers. Again, god-like. How could man ever compete with such awesome power and wisdom? What is taking down a buffalo to birthing or healing someone?
At some evolutionary junction, men realized they were physically stronger than women and they didn’t have to fear physically weaker beings. God became male and moved to the sky, never to be seen but always to be feared. As God was a man, especially as Western culture started to develop, men could claim a closeness to the divine that they then denied women. Women’s periods became a source of disgust and disdain. Babies are tracked through the paternal line, but that of course is another form of insecurity because before paternity tests the only way to be sure of a paternal line was if children bore a resemblance to a member of the male’s family, and ideally, the male himself. Men restricted women’s wisdom and knowledge to the home for a long time, but the rise of the modern woman - who can control their menses like goddesses, and compete with men as equals on almost every level - has tripped some primal switch into overdrive for many contemporary men. Where is the glory of hunting, of bringing literal game to the table, when women can hunt as well as men with modern weapons?
I think it’s a subconscious thing that’s been nurtured and built upon for almost as long as humans have had consciousness apart from the other animals.
And before some fragile man feels the need to jump in here and mansplain how it’s “Not all men”, let me just say: not the point.
BlueSpot
(986 posts)Were you just making that up as you went or are you an archaeologist or something along those lines? It makes a lot of sense but I would say I'd Like a bit more clarity about "At some evolutionary junction" because something important must have happened then.
As I said, it makes sense but there is that whopping big assumption there that made everything turn a 180. And that's too big to ignore.
intheflow
(29,149 posts)I’ve studied religion and feminism, am an avid nonfiction reader of history and anthropology, and also a domestic abuse survivor. I’ve given a lot of thought about this topic over my 60 years.
Bob_in_VA
(100 posts)Based on archaeological evidence from the Early Bronze Age Middle East and southern Europe , the main religions in the those areas were headed by a goddess. What happened was invaders from central Asia came in and took over. Their religion(s) were patriarchal and so superseded the previous matriarchal religion(s). However, to prevent religious wars, the goddess(es) were added to the invader's pantheon as the wives of the male gods. Zeus/Hera, Ares/Aphrodite, etc.
Interestingly, the males living under a female dominated religion didn't fear women's ability to bear children, they were in awe of it. Women's ability to have children was associated with the fertility of the land since people were spiritually linked to the land. Fertile women, fertile land.
Many North American tribal groups were actually run by women. The men of the tribe were only responsible for deciding when to hunt and protect the tribe from rival groups, the women were the planters of crops, a more reliable source of food. In these tribal groups inheritance was through the female so it didn't matter who the father was.
intheflow
(29,149 posts)also, the root of "awful" is "awe," so there have always been elements of fear associated with awe.
BlueSpot
(986 posts)I must admit, I learn a lot of my history from historical fiction which sends me to youtube for more real, scholarly info. I probably have my years wrong but I'm thinking, at about that time, there were indeed goddesses but there were also temple whores and harems and I don't think many actual everyday women shared in the respect shown to the goddesses. I doubt they had many civil rights either.
Yeah, so there were goddesses and I guess women sorta freaked out the men because of the fertility thing. But isn't that exactly also what basically kept them walled off from the world and treated as less than men? They weren't educated, they didn't govern, they didn't soldier. They just stayed home and made babies. Sounds like the same old male-dominated society to me. The goddesses seem more like wall paper when compared to real women's lives.
Must have happened earlier. I don't know. What I think I know came from fiction first so I could have it all wrong.
lindysalsagal
(22,454 posts)in the Mediterranean. That's when men's greater running speed and upper body strength allowed them to dominate. Those who could win battles became important. Women were more of a vulnerability in war and men had to consider them secondary or replaceable.
Women's value was reduced to production of the men's line and their nurturing.
Irish_Dem
(61,488 posts)In a primitive society physical strength is a big advantage in terms of hunting large game, protection from enemies, etc.
Women are smaller, and with less muscle mass.
And before birth control, women were pregnant most of the time during their fertile years.
When not pregnant, they were nursing a baby and caring for all their other children.
Fast forward to the invention of the birth control in modern times.
It was a game changer, women were not pregnant all the time.
Could go to school, get a job, earn their own money.
Men have not adapted.
intheflow
(29,149 posts)
LizBeth
(10,946 posts)much a part of the hunters crowd and were even the better hunters,
women were hunters in ancient societies, and in fact hunted as often as men:
Archaeological evidence
In Peru, ancient women were buried with hunting weapons, and their bones were found alongside weapons.
Anatomy
Women's anatomy may have made them well-suited for hunting. Estrogen can increase fat metabolism, which can give muscles a longer-lasting energy source.
Small groups
In the Paleolithic era, most people lived in small groups, so everyone had to be able to pick up any role at any time.
Hunting and gathering
Both hunting and gathering were essential activities in ancient times. There wasn't enough people in groups to specialize in different tasks, so everyone had to be a generalist to survive.
Recent research
:
A study published in PLoS ONE found that women hunted in 79% of the 63 traditional societies analyzed.
A study published in American Anthropologist argued that women's anatomy made them well-suited for hunting.
A study published in PMC found that women hunted for subsistence in a broad range of cultures in the past 100 years.
A study published in Smithsonian Magazine suggests that early women were hunters, not just gatherers.
A study published in The New York Times suggests that women were hunters, too.
A study found that a pointy stone associated with a female was more likely to be used as a kitchen tool, but was reclassified as a hunting tool
malthaussen
(17,822 posts)I think that explains the deep hindbrain causes of woman-hatred very well. Then add in literally thousands of years of social conditioning to reinforce the primal instinct, and you get modern society, which can barely talk about women without putting them down in some way.
Some of it may also be long-standing revulsion to the variance in women's and men's social interaction, or maybe just lack of imagination on the part of the males, who can't seem to communicate with women very well, although among ourselves we do very well with the odd grunt or staccato phrase. Men are From Mars, Women From Venus, after all. It is common to despise what one cannot understand, deep-seated fear notwithstanding.
Thus the origins and deep-seated reasons, but Man (or Human) is supposedly a thinking species with some smidgen of free will. So why modern society continues to retail the hatred of women is the pertinent issue, along with the question of why so many women seem to think it's the way it should be. The OP was reading about the ERA; one of the reasons it failed was because Anita Bryant and her running-dogs drummed up a lot of sympathy among women for maintaining the status quo. So one might profitably also ask the question: why do women hate women so much?
-- Mal
Beck23
(304 posts)
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)
wnylib
(25,133 posts)PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)Good stuff. Real high brow. Yeesh.
wnylib
(25,133 posts)It was a dig at Freud's view that independent, capable women suffered from penis envy instead of being content with their own identities and society's limited roles for them.
Attilatheblond
(4,880 posts) wnylib
(25,133 posts)Attilatheblond
(4,880 posts)
Hope22
(3,356 posts)That would bomb women back to the 1950’s, take away our rights to healthcare and threaten to remove voting rights. Never!! So things change out here. As for me I’ve been labeled a man hater by many of my sister’s ex husband's for years. Yes it’s multiples because both of their pickers were broken! The ex’s didn’t like me speaking up to my husband, making decisions for myself and standing up for myself. Too bad so sad. Women are on their own here in this country now. To deny that is to deny reality. Ask any pregnant woman just holding her breath that delivery will bring a live mom and baby. Ask any rape victim wanting preventative care across this country. Life is on the line. This my friend is….real high brow!
Attilatheblond
(4,880 posts)Yeah, we be magic creatures alrighty!
Response to wnylib (Reply #35)
Irish_Dem This message was self-deleted by its author.
-misanthroptimist
(1,251 posts)The sooner women can figure out how to reproduce without men the better off the entire planet will be. And I say that as a man. We're just awful.
ThePartyThatListens
(340 posts)Nailed it!
Iggo
(48,669 posts)
Yavin4
(36,801 posts)Also, your charge against men does not include Black men. If White women voted for either Hillary or Kamala in the same percentages that Black men did, they would both have won 50 state landslide victories.
It may be a better use of time to look into why so many women hate women instead of always focusing on the men.
Actually that's longer than I thought it would take for the "women voted for Trump, too" response.
Maybe someone needs a history lesson.
Women are indoctrinated by their church, their husbands and their fathers in a patriarchal society which we live in.
America has been moving backwards since 1977.
The women who vote against women are brainwashed by this anti-feminist male dominated culture.
Yavin4
(36,801 posts)They're the problem.
spooky3
(36,669 posts)"Work" must be done on them.
Response to spooky3 (Reply #57)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
spooky3
(36,669 posts)year. I'd say that we would know "for sure", as much as that is possible after that study is released.
Men in general have voted more Republican than have women in many prior elections. The academic political science literature also includes lots of refereed studies of voting patterns.
Response to spooky3 (Reply #105)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
spooky3
(36,669 posts)This might also be interesting. It's sad IMHO to see the decline in Dem support since the early part of the 20th century:
https://cawp.rutgers.edu/gender-differences-partisan-identification-and-presidential-performance-ratings
Polybius
(18,811 posts)We'll never know now I'm sure.
Response to Polybius (Reply #116)
PeaceWave This message was self-deleted by its author.
Polybius
(18,811 posts)Unfortunately, Chin Music deleted the post, like he always does with all his posts after a few hours or so.
Brenda
(1,373 posts)PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)Rhetorical speech is, by definition, the art of effective or persuasive speech. It is neither effective or persuasive to lead by attacking the audience you claim to be trying to "work on."
LizBeth
(10,946 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(7,521 posts)The assumption that a woman can’t independently and of her own volition choose to vote against a woman seems odd to me.
qazplm135
(7,591 posts)Down to "men" it's hard to fairly get upset if others engage in similar reductionism.
The why people voted for Trump or against Harris is going to depend on the people involved.
Some were racist. Some were sexist. Some were uneducated and easily mislead by media, friends, or simply angry stuff costs more and blamed whomever was in charge without any deeper thoughts than that. Some wanted abortion gone, or believed immigration was a problem, or want to pay less taxes.
It's not just "men," or "women" or even "white people." Some of each group voted for Trump, some didn't. Slightly more did than didn't. Last time slightly more didn't. Time before slightly more didn't but the EC fell against us.
It all really boils down to an electorate that is largely disengaged at anything past the feels level in politics. They are constantly unhappy. Thus we see the back and forth see saw between party control. We will see it again in 26 and 28.
EdmondDantes_
(172 posts)Going against what is considered the norm is hard, especially when it involves giving up privilege. And for a lot of men it does involve giving up privilege whether in the workplace or at home. But that said, the gender gap started long ago in at least the 1990s. It's not a new phenomenon in American politics. Clinton in 1996 is said to be the first president elected without a plurality of both men and women (he lost men by 1 point, but won women by 17 points.
But that gap is at least partially explained by what men and women favor electorally. Women tend to favor social programs and Republicans are vehemently against them. More men tend to favor voting on the economy and for a lot of inaccurate reasons, Republicans are thought to be better on the economy. I don't think it's nearly as simplistic as saying that men who didn't vote for Harris hate women. Sure some do, but claiming it's a substantial majority is grabbing for the reason you want to believe.
But I wouldn't agree that the U.S. has gone backwards since 1977. Someone with Obama's story wouldn't have been elected president. Women wouldn't have been even considered as a major party candidate. Same sex marriage wasn't legal. Marital rape is illegal. The internet has revolutionized communication. We're living longer. Violent crime dropped like a rock. Cancer treatments and death rates.
Objectively we've come a long way. Yeah we have a long way to go, but it's not accurate to say we've regressed.
electric_blue68
(19,384 posts)And imo the rise of the horiffic restrictions in general on abortions are a part of that!
As I've said for several years [oh, I've thought it for waaaay longer, but couldn't articulate it in a short phrase till recently]:
Women aren't truly free untill they can decide when, or if to have a child/children!
Freddie
(9,768 posts)That right should be enshrined in the Constitution (yes I’m dreaming). If we don’t have that we aren’t fully equal human beings. Which is exactly what the Right wants.
PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(34,052 posts)Voted for Harris.
Keepthesoulalive
(921 posts)Let the civil war proceed.
JustAnotherGen
(34,052 posts)Get someone else to do it!
I'm too busy that day. Have to trim my toe nails.
Beringia
(4,752 posts)LizBeth
(10,946 posts)JustAnotherGen
(34,052 posts)The other 22% are in the sunken place.
Alice Kramden
(2,478 posts)I totally do not understand it
Yavin4
(36,801 posts)CousinIT
(10,684 posts)Or that's my theory. If you're a woman, especially one in or seeking power, you have to overcome hatred on both sides.
LizBeth
(10,946 posts)we are not as good in all way and constantly. Makes an impact but I have seen more strides addressing this for women than ever before and the more we challenge, and the more we call out, educate our young girls, be the example, there better it will be. We see it now....
Just Jerome
(132 posts)for my half of the species.
FlyingPiggy
(3,738 posts)The past couple of years, I’ve come to the conclusion that sexism runs MUCH deeper. By far.
Sky Jewels
(8,852 posts)since 2016, unfortunately.
Clouds Passing
(3,302 posts)CousinIT
(10,684 posts)But maybe that's just a perception. We had the Civil Rights Act - but it didn't include women. We have no ERA, for instance.
FlyingPiggy
(3,738 posts)I wonder why?
CousinIT
(10,684 posts)It's so ingrained in humanity all over the world. I was thinking the other day that if the violence, oppression, enslavement, and abuse of any other demographic of humans were as widespread as it is against women (they are 50% of all humanity), people would speak out everywhere and demand change. Yet there is little pushback when it is done against half the humans on Earth as there is against smaller demographics of people. Even the women themselves don't fight it. Why don't they use their power in places like the US, and why does humanity accept the human rights abuses and oppression of women more than it does other groups?
SWBTATTReg
(24,576 posts)and my mom hated his guts and I don't blame her. I couldn't stand him either (he was my father's brother).
Unladen Swallow
(491 posts)and I don't appreciate being lumped into a broad-stroked statement like that.
anciano
(1,643 posts)Thank you
PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)safely refer to MOST men or MANY men. And every day there are men posting on sites that the 19th Amendment should be rescinded. They long for the days of unquestioned patriarchy!
PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)anciano
(1,643 posts)but we are not referring to other sites. We can all read the title of this specific OP and it says what it says.
multigraincracker
(34,584 posts)The world is gray and never black and white.
My theory is it has something to do with testosterone. Some men have what I call testosterone poisoning. I get mine checked every 6 months and keep it at about 300 to 400 and feel fine. Too little is terrible and so is too much.
That's the Nature part of it and there is the Nurture part, or learned and indoctrination part.
Unladen Swallow
(491 posts)Mine was at 1047 naturally, no endogenous support, after a specific dietary change and I felt fantastic. Didn't change my politics or beliefs, though.
multigraincracker
(34,584 posts)Got very grumpy, fat and no libido. Had a great doctor that caught it and got me tested. I now give myself a small amount shot every week. Also noted my PSA graph follows my testosterone graph. Current PSA is at 1.6. Another thing you should watch.
Unladen Swallow
(491 posts)Off topic in this thread but worth stating. I get substantial bloodwork 2x a year and spot check various markers on my own every few months. This of course includes PSA. I like to keep my test in the 800+ range to make me feel the best, and thus far I've been able to do it with diet and lifestyle vs exogenous T.
B.See
(4,123 posts)there are a number of people, male and female, of various races and political affiliations
who share the blame for their reprehensible and unforgivable support of Trump over Hillary and Kamala, both of whom are of nobler character and FAR more qualified than Trump ever could be.
But I would think that only men who are either insecure in themselves, or maybe just plain miserably hateful and loathsome human beings, would have cause to hate women.
xmas74
(29,812 posts)If it doesn't apply to you, don't take personal offense.
As a white woman I'm not offended when others make statements about how white people voted for Trump, make racist statements,etc. I know I'm not part of that group and I do my damndest to show it through my actions. I don't take the actions of others personally.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)LizBeth
(10,946 posts)I do not say you SOME not ALL white women. while being a white woman.
Lucky Luciano
(11,534 posts)intheflow
(29,149 posts)from American and western society? Try to think about it as societal critique and not about you, personally. Not everything is about you!
By the way, this kind of defensive response could also be interpreted as being hostile to women/feminists. “DUers are so mean!”
Or to put it another way, you’re not listening to women, you’re dismissing our experiences because of your fragile male ego, and you’re literally mansplaining our feelings to us. If that’s not inherently hostile to women, I don’t know what is. This is how liberal men perpetuate the patriarchy.
bucolic_frolic
(48,076 posts)Women candidates need to channel Margaret Thatcher. Business attire more suitable for the boardroom than Oprah or The View. Rigid mind spoken with fortitude rather than logic and pleasant consensus. Republicans are as guilty as Democrats. Think of Haley and Palin.
Biophilic
(5,145 posts)Margaret Thatchers was a man in women’s clothing. Why do women have to look and behave like men in order to be approved of? We are, blessedly different. We are not inferior. There is a difference.
bucolic_frolic
(48,076 posts)Biophilic
(5,145 posts)I’m not sure if we are speaking different languages or ideas. I’m not looking to argue a point. I just don’t understand why a woman has to look like and act like a man to win an election. Yes, I get it that culturely we have an image of what a so called leader looks like. But why? Aren’t the ideas, ethics and morals more important than the package?
sheshe2
(88,792 posts)Do you think we need to dress like our mothers to be taken seriously?
Is this kind of 'what was she wearing' moment?
bucolic_frolic
(48,076 posts)to leave no doubt we have the resolve to manage, run, control things. You know who's got the demeanor down pat? Gov. Witmer. Controlled certainty. No room for doubts.
mopinko
(72,098 posts)can we pls consign those torture devices to the dustbin of fashion history?
i mean, i get it. but we ignore the part about them being symbolic of sex at our peril.
i thought kamala dressed perfectly except for those damn shoes.
lostnfound
(16,783 posts)it looks like it is dropping dead, actually, Presumably after electing the fat, orange, senile, derelict, lazy moronic white man whose character is the color of tar to be the emblem and “leader”. Whatever.
If my votes are wanted for the future males chosen to get elected, they’d better be snappy dressers, polished dark shoes, clean fingernails, stylish haircuts, and have no history of impure thoughts or substandard manners.
Also, there should be a swimsuit competition. Ripped abs like Luigi, muscular legs, good proportions.
The next guy that wants women to vote for him had better meet all of those criteria.
iemanja
(55,154 posts)Or Hillary for that matter?
EarnestPutz
(2,731 posts).......Hillary dressed super conservatively in what looked like upholstery fabric and Kamala dressed in modern womens business attire with an occasional fashionable flair. Both paid a price with voters, men and women alike.
iemanja
(55,154 posts)delisen
(6,695 posts)For Gore it was his color palette , the earth tones. Hennenberger at the NYT ragged on this as did others. Our binary system of categorizing people or concepts as male/tough and female/weak makes it natural for opposition to positive change to use these shortcuts to prevent progress.
The opposition has been better at using this shortcut than we have been at combating it.
The inherent sexism in our culture, language and history is a fact. That doesn’t mean it cannot be successfully addressed .
thucythucy
(8,813 posts)or--more generally--unsuited to her position as Vice President of the United States?
If so, I don't recall it, but perhaps you have a specific instance in mind?
And Harris spoke her mind with enough "fortitude" to gain several hundred criminal convictions in various courts of law, so I don't think she exuded any notable lack of it.
Unless, of course, one thinks women are inherently less credible than men.
Which I think has more to do with what happened this past election than anything Harris wore or didn't wear, said or didn't say.
walkingman
(8,702 posts)in the 70s by many religious groups because it went against their perceived "gender roles". They tried to make feminism a dirty word (much like liberal).
Also partisan politics - Equal rights for women is definitely not a Republican priority - why, I have no idea?
Pro-business groups do not want anyone telling them who and how much they should pay their employees. Remember "bidness" (capitalism) is worshiped in America which is totally based on profit. How dare the government tell private business what to do.
Also, remember this is not exclusively a men's issue - there a millions of women that have voted against it in the past and continue to do so.
I don't think men in general hate women - but in a patriarchy, that is the order of things. If they were forced to tolerate the things women do they would be raising holy hell!
Brenda
(1,373 posts)You spoke of feminism as a dirty word in the 1970's yet I recall an interview with Michelle Obama in maybe 2010 or so where she was asked if she was a feminist and she said something like "I don't like labels." Why can't she say she's a feminist? How did that denial of it translate down to young women?
You said: I don't think men in general hate women - but in a patriarchy, that is the order of things.
That makes no sense.
walkingman
(8,702 posts)That makes no sense.
The way that our society socializes boys to "become men" is not to tell them how to be men. It's just to
teach them how to not be women.
"Don't cry. Be a man."
"Don't be a pussy. Be a man."
"Don't be weak. Be a man."
And the tool we use to do that kind of socializing to steer them away from feminine things, is shame.
So I don't think it is "hate"?
Hell, I really don't know because I admire, respect, and love women I meet unless like anyone else they give me a reason not to. My DW of 47 years deprogrammed me long ago.
Buddyzbuddy
(189 posts)For you men here who take offense to being lumped in with "all" of the other men, I think thou protest too much. Maybe it triggers something in you that feels familiar and you feel a need to defend what is obviously indefensible.
Men in general have for centuries treated women as the lesser gender. How can you possibly take the opposing view of that with a straight face. Yes, unfortunately there are some women that voted in large numbers against women candidates for whatever reason. But, there is no denying that a huge percentage of men fear women in positions of power and fear many times evolves into anger and hatred which is taken out on women in so many ways. I don't know many if any adult males that fear women physically just by their sheer presence. We as men, in general, are taught from the time we begin walking that we are the superior gender and by the time we are young adults it is ingrained in us. We feel entitled to our leadership positions and our status in life.
It's taken half my life to recognize the wrongs that I have committed in so many suttle inadvertent ways as well as obvious mistakes and another 30 years trying to make up for it. We need our male population to learn from our mistakes and change the mindset. Men need to be less defensive. Stop for just a minute and listen, really listen. Then things can change for the better. I helped to raise my daughter to feel entitled. She's now a professor at a university.
Come on guys, get it together.
rampartd
(1,233 posts)"the code of the west" is the unwritten rules that boys of my generation were taught. we may seem chauvinist or overprotective, but only contemptable pigs like tfg and his incel fans hate women.
regnaD kciN
(26,677 posts)…was led by Phyllis Schafely.
walkingman
(8,702 posts)She believed that even if men do earn more than women, it is beneficial to society as a whole.
This reminds me of VP-elect JD Vance's statements earlier this year. This is the world that the GOP is pushing with all of their might....the 1950's.
SharonAnn
(13,920 posts)
North Shore Chicago
(4,072 posts)She has a gay son, how many people even knew this? Even in her own circle.
paleotn
(19,766 posts)Never outgrew that 5th grade fear of girls. Male Homo sapiens are some of the most insecure creatures on the planet. You can beat on him and you'll get no more than an angry reaction. But if a woman laughs at him, he comes completely unglued.
Unladen Swallow
(491 posts)but this certainly doesn't apply to me and I resent the implication that it does.
paleotn
(19,766 posts)For many my comment is tailor made. If you’re different then congrats. And take a chill pill. Your angry response makes me wonder otherwise.
By the way, I’m straight male in my 60’s. And I know my fellow males quite well after all these years. Many if not most need to put on their big boy pants and grow the fuck up.
Unladen Swallow
(491 posts)The left has a conniption fit when the right paints with a broad brush, and the right loses its mind when the left does it.
So let's just choose a more precise brush to paint with, and leave the 24" roller in the truck. We don't need that much paint coverage on this job.
paleotn
(19,766 posts)Me thinks thou doest protest too much. Am I hitting too close to home?
Bernardo de La Paz
(51,902 posts)Iggo
(48,669 posts)Think. Again.
(20,131 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(51,902 posts)Reader Rabbit
(2,669 posts)...then fear will arise at any attempt to throw off that subjugation. And with that fear comes anger, violence, and hate.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts) Haveadream
(1,632 posts)Men, in general, don't hate women as much as they love the advantages of wielding power, despite the fact that it so often comes at women's expense.
As long as men have greater physical strength and do not carry the burden of being primary caretakers of the species, they will always have an advantage in power dynamics. And they do not hate women unless they demand, in myriad ways, that men relinquish that advantage. THAT threat, no matter from whom it comes, is literally existential.
Their entire gender identities are based upon that power differential which is glorified in every sphere of life. They have always used any force necessary to preserve it. In addition to using direct violence, they expressly design empires, religions, social structures and laws to sanctify and maintain it.
Reader Rabbit
(2,669 posts)They are a paraphrase of the ideas of the late, great Ursula LeGuin. If you haven't read her writings on sex and gender—or any of her works, for that matter—I highly recommend them.
Haveadream
(1,632 posts)I knew I had heard the sentiment previously, but am so glad you brought it to the discussion. Wise words, indeed.
Appreciate the attribution to Ursula LeGuin, too
I can't think of anything that describes the situation better.
PortTack
(35,062 posts)
PittBlue
(4,415 posts)They are intimidated by them…I’d like to see one of them go through labor.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)
The Unmitigated Gall
(4,690 posts)Very good presentation of this terrible woman and her impact on the ERA on the Hysteria Podcast.
Intractable
(730 posts)Somewhere out there, some man must be the worst. -- signed a man
NNadir
(34,964 posts)I find the claim disgusting, narrow minded, a weak generalization reflective of weak thinking.
iemanja
(55,154 posts)Women’s rights?
Response to iemanja (Reply #56)
anciano This message was self-deleted by its author.
It’s hysterical that you consider that misandry. I raised the issue because you and others here hijacked the thread to make it about yourselves. In doing so, you revealed your priorities.
PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)You talk about other folks' priorities. What is your priority?
iemanja
(55,154 posts)The great majority of men vote Republican. That is a simple fact. They thereby oppose rights for the majority of Americans. You seemingly were not among them, but you have repeatedly made clear that the feelings of some of that minority of men who vote Democratic outweigh equal rights. If that weren’t the case, you wouldn’t continually make this thread about yourself.
PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)We aren't talking about Republican men. It's a given that Republican men would vote for Trump. So, what are you going on about?
iemanja
(55,154 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 31, 2024, 12:20 AM - Edit history (1)
Considering your appropriate correction of my point about Republican men (not sure if you saw my edited version), I clearly gave all Democratic men too much credit. As the OP pointed out, some former Biden and Obama voters chose Trump. The opposition to women’s rights is thus widespread—and not just among men— and even many, but not all, of those who did vote for Harris prioritize their own feelings above rights for women. In repeatedly making this thread about yourself, you clearly conveyed your own priorities. You’ve had several posts to affirm your support for women’s rights, yet you have chosen not to do so. You’ve made yourself clear, as have I.
PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)though I am quite certain the other party revels in the idea of us fighting amongst ourselves.
iemanja
(55,154 posts)Point taken.
Abolishinist
(2,119 posts)So now the truth comes out!
Just in case 
Response to Abolishinist (Reply #159)
PeaceWave This message was self-deleted by its author.
Abolishinist
(2,119 posts)NNadir
(34,964 posts)This is about an asinine blanket statement about a full class of human beings.
Ignorance does not "hurt my feelings." Rather, it disgusts me.
Take the title of this post, delete the words "men" and "women."
Why do __________ hate _______?
Or simply reverse the words.
Replace either of them with "African Americans" or "Italians" or "Jews" or "Persians," "Gays," or "Christians" or "Muslims" or "Arabs" or "Germans" or "Indians, or "Palestinians" or "Hispanics" to see what I mean.
If, in doing so, you can't see what I mean, then I really, really, really, really, really can't help you.
I am quite sure that there are many women here - intelligent, independent, decent, and highly moral individuals - who can see it as such.
Only a simpleton - a moral simpleton - can make a blanket statement of this nature. It would have been less offensive if the author of the OP had put the words "some" before "men," since clearly there are a subset of men who are misogynists.
In fact, I would then agree with the statement, since it is clearly true that there are bigots among men, among women, among human beings.
There are also a subset of women - some women - who despise men, but the overwhelming majority do not.
I personally despise bigots, independent of their race, gender, sexual preference, religion, and genetic heritage and irrespective of the object of their bigotry.
Got it?
No?
If not, I can't be of any help.
Have a happy New Year.
iemanja
(55,154 posts)Except to those who believe men's feelings matter more.
Ilikepurple
(149 posts)So is subject of misogyny just off the table for you? Obviously you’ve shown you believe it’s non offensive to say some women despise men. “This” is about women’s rights. You helped make it about male oppression or bigotry. Perhaps it’s both, but don’t come in and dictate what a thread you didn’t start is about. Also “why do __hate__?” doesn’t imply all or some. It’s contextual. Why do dogs hate cats? Why do children hate broccoli? Or why do men love women? You wouldn’t take any of these as universal statements. This seems to have stricken an uncomfortable chord with you. “Disgust”, “despise”, “simpleton” are strong emotional words.
I too do not like bigotry, but I also realize that when I’m not part of the marginalized class of the person making the statement, it might be fruitful to my moral development to listen first. It seems both logistically and morally simplistic to believe there is enough equal ground between demographics that statements are bigoted through form rather than content and context. “Why do women hate men” is a much more powerful, oppressive, and effective statement than “why do men hate women.” I wouldn’t have chosen such a provocative title statement as OP did. I also neither would have chosen pomp and condescension as my rhetorical device of choice. But, I do like living in a world other approaches and ideas.
róisín_dubh
(11,938 posts)Do you hate women?
If the answer to the first is yes and the second is no, then move along because this isn’t about you. JFC
However, the world is littered with the dead and beaten bodies, the overly legislated bodies, and the controlled/coerced bodies of women and girls because of men (and women who internalise misogyny).
It’s a fact and if it hurts your fee-fees to get lumped in with all men, maybe have a look around at your brethren.
LizBeth
(10,946 posts)rso
(2,513 posts)I am a married heterosexual man and I love women, I think they are superior to men in almost every respect, except for physical strength. Women are generally more incisive, understanding, patient and much better attuned to the important things in life.
Evolve Dammit
(19,473 posts)
Lunabell
(7,162 posts)I guess their typically stronger bodies, make them think they are superior. It's learned behavior from millenia of indoctrination that increased physical strength gives them rights they don't deserve.
Walleye
(37,016 posts)I’ve always said we will never get equality until men can have babies
Diamond_Dog
(35,561 posts)4catsmom
(374 posts)they get paid more than women, have more opportunity, are safer in any situation...it goes on. What is the problem really?
delisen
(6,695 posts)Few Americans were aware this happened. More of us know about President Sheinbaum since she recently confronted Trump on our border problems. She seems to be the strongest leader in North and Central America tight now..
Walleye
(37,016 posts)Powerful military the world knows. Other countries have elected female leaders, but they are not considered to be most powerful person in the world
iemanja
(55,154 posts)The majority of men and even many women in this country?
delisen
(6,695 posts)I think the last election was close. The fact is Trump was a draft evader and those voting for him did not care
The Three am phone call was not being raised as an issue.
Until Bill Clinton was elected it was widely believed that winning the presidency required a military service background. Men touted their military service. Kennedy, and GHWalker Bush were war heroes. After Vietnam that changed Dick Cheney became head of the Dept of Defense and then VP despite an impressive number of deferments during Vietnam.
Much had changed between the end of WW Ii and the end of Vietnam war.
Isolationism is again popular. There was very little discussion or interest among the electorate in 2024 In our military might or nuclear power.
I think Harris lost a close election and had she had a longer campaign she well may have won.
What made Sheinbaum’s win possible was that Mexico was able to pass a law that business and government had, to achieve parity in gender in leadership positions.When an electorate sees and has direct experience in having near equal numbers of women in leadership it makes it easier tor voters to vote for females in the highest office, There is a growing movement toward parity in government in some US states, New Mexico for example. I think this will continue and will lead to us having a female president.
Walleye
(37,016 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 31, 2024, 05:27 AM - Edit history (2)
All you have written is correct and accurate. The prejudice is a very hard thing to overcome. I don’t expect to see a woman as president United States in my lifetime. We had two good chances.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)racism doesn't exist in America because Obama was president.
delisen
(6,695 posts)I bring up Sheinbaum because she achieved the presidency even though Mexico is still a macho country. Therefore sexism in Mexico was an obstacle that she and the electorate.were able to overcome.
The US has both racism and sexism . We can achieve electing both black president and female presidents even though racism and sexism may persist.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)At least not anytime soon.
delisen
(6,695 posts)Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)delisen
(6,695 posts)Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)
TheProle
(3,146 posts)BBC Growth of women in power grinds to near-halt in a mega-election year
Nearly half the world's population - 3.6 billion people - had major elections in 2024, but it was also a year that saw the slowest rate of growth in female representation for 20 years.
Twenty-seven new parliaments now have fewer women than they did before the elections - countries such as the US, Portugal, Pakistan, India, Indonesia and South Africa. And, for the first time in its history, fewer women were also elected to the European Parliament.
The BBC has crunched numbers from 46 countries where election results have been confirmed and found that in nearly two-thirds of them the number of women elected fell.
The data is from the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) - a global organisation of national parliaments that collects and analyses election data.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy895l25gwxo
delisen
(6,695 posts)This makes Mexico’s achievement all the more worth studying and learning from.
LeftInTX
(31,583 posts)Mexican-American men did not support Kamala. I saw it with my own eyes. It would be the guy who told me they weren't voting for Kamala.
delisen
(6,695 posts)Mexico also has been moving toward full abortion rights
I think there has been a trend toward more regressive voting among Americans of Mexican descent. I did the trends in Mexico to be worth following, learning from, and supporting. Sheinbaum so far has been daring and effective in responding to the Tump bullying and has rightly confronted him with the facts on our guns and drug issues and their negative effect on other countries .
We have not been effective on bringing these facts into the border issue.
Elessar Zappa
(16,245 posts)It was about 50/50 or maybe even a slight Kamala majority among Mexican Americans (many other Hispanic groups voted slightly more for Trump).
LeftInTX
(31,583 posts)In my neighborhood:
One house: Guy has his arm around GF/wife who is on my list. I think he's listening. I ask her if she will be supporting Kamala. She looks at him and then me and says "yes". I ask him, he says, "No" in a cocky manner. I reply, "It's good that you get along". (I conclude he's trying to control her)
Another house: Similar to first house. I don't bother to ask the guy who he's supporting because he's rolling his eyes. I don't bother to ask the woman either. But why is he accompanying her to the door? It's as if he's trying to be controlling.
A block or so down to someone who is standing in his driveway. He was a Biden and Beto supporter: "I thought you moved. I don't see you on my list". "I'm a Republican now". "What happened?" "Things change"
Another house (woman is on my list) Man comes to the door "We don't want that Kamala woman" He does not allow me to speak with his wife.
Another house (21 year old young woman) Her older brother answers. He gives me a dirty look. Says she isn't home. Got a bad vibe. Won't go back to the house.
All Latino males. I know that white males can be like this, but these were people on my list and people who I vetted before I knocked on their doors. In the case of the 21 year old, I checked the voting history of the other household members. They hadn't voted in primaries, so I took a chance.
Elessar Zappa
(16,245 posts)I would guess Mexican American men here supported Harris 60/40 although I haven’t seen the official statistics. Also, in my state, Mexican Americans support abortion and gay marriage at higher rates than white New Mexicans. But you live in Texas so I’m sure it’s different.
LeftInTX
(31,583 posts)
In 2016, we had large swaths with over 80% Democratic in San Antonio's westside.
Now those areas are only 60-70% Democratic.
It's a huge shift.
The westside is not exactly a redneck or GOP or rural area!
This is the home of Henry B Gonzalez, Henry Cisneros and Joaquin Castro!!!
&t=1183s&ab_channel=1DayInLife
&ab_channel=1DayInLife
&ab_channel=1DayInLife
&ab_channel=1DayInLife
https://www.visitsanantonio.com/plan-your-trip/neighborhood-guide/westside/
The Rio Grande Valley also turned red. Even Laredo turned red.
delisen
(6,695 posts)róisín_dubh
(11,938 posts)Please do not hold Mexico up to be a paragon of women’s rights.
I’ve spent the last two years helping women asylum seekers from Mexico and talk about a society that despises women to its core (don’t get me wrong, I love the country and its history and people, which I’ve spent my career studying- but Mexico has deeply fucked up attitudes towards women and one of the highest rates of gender violence in the world)
cate94
(2,920 posts)Why did so many people vote for a rapist? How could anyone hate woman that much?
The Third Doctor
(402 posts)cally
(21,724 posts)So many cultures, religions, modern societies work to degrade women. Why?
pandr32
(12,392 posts)Lots of men know they have privilege and have no problem with it. They enjoy it and choose to keep it. Patriarchy has lots of support.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)pandr32
(12,392 posts)They are different, though. Many people knowingly or unknowingly replicate patriarchy without a hate-on for women.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)Freddie
(9,768 posts)Via their husband’s paychecks. In their view, keeping the status quo benefits them more than equal rights would.
SunSeeker
(54,246 posts)Is like saying the "house negro" benefited from slavery. https://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/mmt/mxp/speeches/mxt17.html
Choosing to take the least bad available option to you in a bad system is not a "benefit."
Freddie
(9,768 posts)Typical Republican, it only matters if it affects them.
meadowlander
(4,783 posts)their sisters got better grades than them in school, they think they have to push mom away to show they're all grown up now, and they've been indoctrinated since birth to believe that their self-worth is inextricably tied to the hotness of the women that will go out with them and otherwise being better than women at everything.
#Notallmen,butdefinitelytheoneswe'retalkingabout
rickford66
(5,739 posts)The vast majority of us love and respect girls/women.
LizBeth
(10,946 posts)Polybius
(18,811 posts)I love women.
Oopsie Daisy
(4,830 posts)PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)Presumably, the vast majority of these men were Democrats. Despite this, OP asks the question...
"Why did so many male Dems and Independents not vote for Harris?"
usonian
(15,247 posts)It's like this:
Men are easily programmed.
Men like things that are big, fast and "blow up real good"
Most organized religions teach that women are inferior and in some, the cause of sin and peril.
This is horribly wrong,
Yet, people "go along"
In the Lotus Sutra, an 8 year old girl attains enlightenment, the highest condition of human existence, by hearing the sutra. The Sutra is self-referential, reflecting its pervasiveness across time and space.
🪷
SheltieLover
(61,125 posts)Lovely story about the young Buddhist girl. Ty for sharing.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)DFW
(57,007 posts)I refuse to be tossed into some category with which I have nothing in common.
To me, there is certainly no true sentence that contains the phrase "men hate women."
If there is a woman out there who really believes a generalization like that containing "men," implying "all men," then you have my sympathy for your unfortunate life's experiences. However, as one with a very happy life partnership with a woman, at least so far (first fifty years behind us), I'm just not interested in such a discussion. I find the standpoint that "men hate women" a cynical fallacy to begin with. If there are such men, especially here on DU, let them either come out and say so. Otherwise, I see no point in designating us as such.
Response to DFW (Reply #138)
PeaceWave This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to DFW (Reply #138)
Abolishinist This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bread and Circuses
(343 posts)Where we are today.
Women create Life, and nurture the next generation.
Men can’t and so they destroy Life.
If you look at the natural world—
Masculine energy is suppose to provide safety, food, and shelter. Their strength is to protect and defend from predators, natural disasters, etc.
Males abandoned their precious responsibilities to compete against each other and to rape and destroy the world.
The world needs balance. There is a need for both males and females to work together.
Men can nurture and women can protect! We don’t need to stick to strict stereotyped roles.
But, the failure of the Y Chromosome to be fair and honest with other males led to aggressive competition in their destructive activities.
Moms ….our role is to raise our boys to be good men, like President Carter. The truth is that many fathers compete with their own sons, and do not provide a positive role models .
Please understand, this is an observation. It doesn’t apply to all men, but certainly we can see that it is a valid concern as we watch the words and deeds of the powerful males around the globe.
I have known many decent men who lead other men in good work.
So, why don’t men want women to have equal rights?
The answer is they don’t want anyone to have equal rights. Not anyone. They don’t like other men, either. Everything is a competition. And aggression and violence gets them to the top. And money and power keeps them there.
Thanks for reading.
I am hopeful that the history of humanity will arc towards compassion and kindness.
flvegan
(64,709 posts)and you just know it's gonna be epic.
PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)If that's the goal, then absolutely, hats off.
Sympthsical
(10,411 posts)Still . . .
"How did you ring in the New Year?"
"Internet slapfight."
"Auspicious!"
iemanja
(55,154 posts)Enter threads that say "white people" and make the comment, "not all white people," or more similar to the reaction to the thread, insist the real problem is with the OP? If they do, they violate allyship 101. It's like the first think you are taught. If they don't, one can't help wonder why women merit so little that they insist on making the thread about men instead?
cadoman
(1,034 posts)And no man will ever hold political office again.
They literally stopped a Harris golden age for the world just to keep power in the dusty hands of the white man.
PeaceWave
(1,240 posts)chowmama
(577 posts)It's a defense mechanism for low self-esteem. If you feel you can't achieve status by any merit of your own, at least you're better than...Them... by virtue of external plumbing, melanin deficiency, favorite Invisible Friend, whatever. Pick your characteristic, pick your targets and go to town. It's the quickest possible route to third base. Or even first. Just evict most of the rest of the players from the field before the game even begins.
I mean, look at the guys who want to return to the days when women had to get married because otherwise they wouldn't know where their next meal was coming from. "Hey, look over here, baby, it's me or death. Trust me, I'm the best of the bad lot. Just work like a dog, do whatever I tell you, and don't expect any respect or consideration." Okay, 2 thoughts about those guys. 1) Well, you probably know yourself best. I'll take your word for it. 2) God help me, I'd hoped for more. And I'm going to get it. Someplace else.
If we really were inferior, they wouldn't have to be afraid of the competition. Obviously, we'd fall behind. But they know we're equal and equal is a threat. On a level playing field, they're pretty sure they can't compete. If they're wrong, that's a damn shame, but they still have the option of sucking it up and getting to work like the rest of us. If they're right - well, they'd still be better off keeping it to themselves.
But they just have to broadcast it. I wish they'd get t-shirts that say 'I am a weenie' and get it over with. Since they can't grow up or anything.
Blue_Tires
(57,539 posts)Keep winning races over the best qualified woman, this whole country has a problem
Paladin
(29,165 posts)If this sort of broad-brush trashing appeared, targeting all women or all minorities, lots of you would be shitting blue flames of outrage---and rightfully so.
Save your anger for all of our many enemies who genuinely deserve it---very much including the swinish portion of the male population, of which me and millions of other men are not a part.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)rights of men. Consider that every man and every woman is raised within that system that, endemically, says men are worthy of more.
Just as I, a white woman, need to vigilantly and continuously work at unpeeling the onion layers of racism that were implanted in me by our racist culture, men have those layers with respect to women. You may not think you do, but you do. They are baked in. And some of the problem comes from the fact that many allied men's knee jerk reaction is denial and unwillingness to examine those attitudes.
And those endemic layers of sexism result in a culture that shows its hatred of women every day.
Imagine if you lived in a place where the law says that if you have one of a number of fairly commonplace ailments, you should be allowed to die horribly rather than be given treatment for that ailment. Could you ever begin to imagine a man going into an emergency room with a perforation in his abdomen and being told to go wait in the parking lot until he's much nearer to death?
Imagine if you lived in a world where, if you were being physically threatened by your spouse, up to and including the spouse KILLING your children, and you call the police for help, the highest law in the land has decreed that law enforcement is not bound to help you. (See Castle Rock v. Gonzales)
You don't even need to imagine living in a world where, given a choice between a proven, effective leader and a criminal, buffoonish grifter, people choose the grifter. TWICE.
I could go on and on. You live in a world that is geared toward you. I live in a world that is not geared toward me. This is our system. It is a system created by men that shows its hatred of women all day, every day.
If you feel the OP does not pertain to you, you should understand that.
Paladin
(29,165 posts)Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)H2O Man
(76,002 posts)was one of a few USSC decisions that determined that police do not have a duty to protect people who correctly ask for protection. While it was case specific to a restraining order involving a woman, it is not restricted to sex or age.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)Many things don't explicitly state that they are meant to discriminate against women.
They don't have to.
H2O Man
(76,002 posts)that the majority of restraining orders in cases involving a man and woman are issued to protect the woman. They are, of course, issued to protect men from women, men from men, and women from women. The issue of the police to protect anyone, of course, is much larger than protection orders. It actually covers all types of crimes.
Patton French
(1,228 posts)NT
leftyladyfrommo
(19,481 posts)I really think that is the basis of the fear.
PedroXimenez
(643 posts)
Quiet Em
(1,422 posts)and a good percentage still refuse to acknowledge that it exists. Or maybe they just don't care. I don't know.
Some progress has been made, but not nearly enough.
viva la
(3,892 posts)Do other countries face this? Most certainly don't have the level of crime against women, do they?
CrispyQ
(38,788 posts)I guess you could say it's milder in some countries/regions than others but male is default the world over.
Linda ladeewolf
(548 posts)He’s on YouTube
Linda ladeewolf
(548 posts)
MineralMan
(148,242 posts)I voted for Hillary, too, unlike some of my friends who are women who said things like, "I just don't like Hillary."
So, I can't answer your question.
The answer is complex, and has to do with many things.
Some men think that women will try to control them if they gain power. Of course, some men have tried to control women for millennia.
Klondike Kat
(860 posts)Hillary and Kamala were the best choices in their respective elections. As a man I was disappointed when they lost. In each case their platforms where better than Trump's.
Dem4life1234
(2,153 posts)It's definitely not race because had she been a male, they would certainly have voted for her.
It's a very unique type of American sexism.
So many men just hate women, it used to be the old school "oh, women are too precious to do sports" paternalistic type of sexism. But now that women have had more advancements and are not falling at many of their feet, not being controlled, it has turned into full fledged pure hatred.
The only way I can explain it is that women are no longer easily controlled and some of their fragile egos can't handle it. They can't beat on us anymore, they have to compete with us in the workplace, that's a problem for them.
Dem4life1234
(2,153 posts)You keep hearing them whine about women taking them through the cleaners during divorce but that has nothing to do with gender. Naturally, the divorce settlement money gets allocated to the person who makes least, and men often marry women who make less than them.
It also has to do with them mistreating the woman, taking her for granted. Or they purposely choose women based solely on their exterior looks rather than inteinsic qualities and then whine when they get bitten.
These males think we oppress them. Can you believe that? I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side.
OLDMDDEM
(2,193 posts)Response to Brenda (Original post)
CentralMass This message was self-deleted by its author.
Dem4life1234
(2,153 posts)I hate that Biden stepped down. I wish he would have stuck it out and then step down had he won. This country is way too misogynistic.
Quiet Em
(1,422 posts)Voltaire2
(15,034 posts)There is a concerted right wing propaganda effort to inflate misogyny and frame it as widespread.
There is a real problem with white american voters, both men and women. They fairly consistently vote for fascist policies and political parties, and have been doing so since about 1968.
TrunKated
(264 posts)Whether from tradition, habit, insecurity, (or even fetishes), it's a problem.
Being free, thinking things out, and making your choices can be hard, I understand.
There is a strong minority of people who want to be told what to do.
OMGWTF
(4,509 posts)that they will be treated the same way they treated others when they are no longer the majority.
Racism is at the heart of the abortion bans happening all around us -- it's estimated that by 2035, whites will be the minority in the US, and they just can't handle the thought, so they are forcing women to have babies they don't want even if it kills them.
Mblaze
(453 posts)to ratify the ERA but Congress declared it was beyond the statute of limitations that was in the legislation promoting the amendment (it was) and refused to ratify it because of that time limit.
valleyrogue
(1,320 posts)Women are considered inferiors, to have a host of personality traits that supposedly render them "unfit" to "lead" men. Much of this attitude is a result of religion, but the attitude exists outside it.
Women are considered objects for men to screw and bear children. They are considered stupid, basically beasts of burden, whose only purpose is to serve men. Men as a group, regardless of political and religious beliefs, subscribe to this. They see women only as transactions to be bought and sold. Look at the attitude of many men on this very board, an allegedly progressive board, and their attitude about prostitution, porn, and surrogacy, ALL of which degrade women and girls as things to be bought and sold. They think if you tell the truth about these ideas, you are somehow a "prude," a "right-winger," and other such rot. They, like the men on the right, think getting access to women's bodies is a RIGHT. It is definitely NOT. They rig the economic system in such a fashion that women feel they MUST sell themselves to men, whether through a form of prostitution or marriage itself, which is a form of prostitution at its core, in order to survive. This isn't "choice" or "empowerment" for women. It is survival.
Men as a group these days are whiny because they aren't getting the sexual access to women that they think they are entitled to. The birthrate worldwide is plummeting regardless of country or racial background, and men are stomping mad about it. It is all about entitlement. THIS is the biggest problem with men as a group. They think women OWE them. Women owe them NOTHING.
This is why more and more women are rejecting men, marriage, and the nuclear family. They are seeing what I saw decades ago, that there is really nothing in it for them anymore. There never was despite all the attempts to try and sweeten the pot for women (legal bennies, etc.).
When I say "men as a group," I am referring to men as a group as a "sex class." This has nothing to do with men individually.
Beringia
(4,752 posts)One woman talked about how her husband had a temper and she was afraid of him, but she needed him to do the hard labor field work of digging up the soil and planting. She said otherwise she would not want to be married to him.
In feudal China, women, usually with bound feet, were denied educational opportunities and condemned to social isolation. But in Jian-yong county in Hunan province, peasant women miraculously developed a separate written language, called Nu Shu, meaning "female writing." Believing women to be inferior, men disregarded this new script, and it remained unknown for centuries. It wasn't until the 1960s that Nu Shu caught the attention of Chinese authorities, who suspected that this peculiar writing was a secret code for international espionage.
I was able to watch it through my library on Kanopy
https://www.wmm.com/catalog/film/nu-shu-a-hidden-language-of-women-in-china/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/sep/23/china.gender
kimbutgar
(23,840 posts)Almost every guy I encountered when I was a young lass was an a hole and complained about his Mother. My ex husband did not litke his mother and was not a loving husband. My husband now of 35 years us a mommas boy and treats me good. And when I met her the first time I immediately liked her.
redqueen
(115,173 posts)Thankfully we have creators like The Public Offender and The Ex Patriarch out there. Hopefully it catches on.
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)Response to Brenda (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Joinfortmill
(16,896 posts)
Festivito
(13,629 posts)Paraphrased from Genisis...
Love puts ...enmity between guy and the woman, and between his seed and her seed; it shall bruise his head, and she shall bruise his heel... That is, it's gonna hurt.
We've built a society of INSTANT GRATIFICATION. Life just DON'T work that way. Not for the woman at least. So, the guy gets frustrated. Our society is more pervasive than ever. Some guys get it, more and more and more don't. So, the women are frustrated TOO. The back and forth compounds the frustrations.
To be a little more complicated, something I do too much: Love put enmity there because we love to judge. Makes us feel as wise. This further frustrates us when our petty judgements don't always apply well to different situations.
I'd add more but this little bit took over an hour as my new computer gave me the new blue screen of death three times and I had to make sure my work was protected.
LeftyLucie
(39 posts)In fact, the Old Testament is full of misogyny, as is the Qur'an, as is much of the NT as well. And FWIW, almost all post-agricultural societies established patriarchal systems.
Elessar Zappa
(16,245 posts)There was patriarchy among many Native American groups. I could go on.
LeftyLucie
(39 posts)There seems to be this shift from relative gender equality within power structures to an increasing patriarchalism as societies become more sedentary/agricultural (with numerous exceptions as well, of course).
Elessar Zappa
(16,245 posts)I’m just saying that I don’t think Abrahamic religions have much to do with it.
malthaussen
(17,822 posts)That, to me, is a more relevant question.
Because if their hatred or disdain for women-in-general was so great that they could not hold their collective nose and vote against the Flabby Orange Menace -- twice -- then that hatred/disdain must be very great indeed.
I can think of a lot of reasons not to vote for either Hillary or Kamala, without referencing their gender at all; but it is beyond me why anyone would tolerate DJT and the Republicans over either. To vote against the Republicans seems not only reasonable and logical, but critical in recent times. Yet they stayed home in droves, in effect voting for the Orange Shitstain.
-- Mal
OverBurn
(1,120 posts)IroningBored
(10 posts)I have previously posted some of these comments.
Indoctrination of Little Boys
Every school year, I read at least one news article about a Catholic or right-wing elementary school sending out dress code warnings to parents. Girls are not allowed to wear certain types of clothing because “it will excite the boys.”
Little boys are indoctrinated to believe that girls are to blame for the excited behavior of boys. We have many examples of “little boys” blaming women for the “excited” behavior of men, including judges who question what rape victims were wearing and Republican politicians who tell women to keep their legs closed.
Here is more context: 21st Century old, white guy Sam Alito, in his majority opinion, quoted a 17th Century old, white guy, Mathew Hale. Hale also wrote: If women are accorded bodily autonomy, it will limit the freedom of men (paraphrase).
If little boys were taught that they, and only they, are responsible for their “excited” and all other behavior and the consequences of such and women were “accorded” bodily autonomy, we would no longer have these discussions about “why men hate women.”
allegorical oracle
(3,690 posts)have a lot of hang-ups. Older men have learned that manly men don't have to be domineering.
The Wizard
(12,997 posts)in Democratic districts were "lost in the mail." Let's question Louis DeJoy.
no_hypocrisy
(49,607 posts)by a woman.
Their mother.
Their grandmother.
Their sister.
Their daughter.
Their boss (who can fire them for any reason).
Their professor.
Their classmates.
Their co-workers.
They're afraid to compete.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,799 posts)Eve. 2nd to arrive. First to get blamed. Written by men mascarading as the highest power.
EarnestPutz
(2,731 posts)Godot51
(316 posts)They are scared and they hide their fear with bluster.
alarimer
(16,716 posts)All the Abrahamic religions are terrible for women.
Our society is immersed in religion, even in a nominally secular country.
Chemical Bill
(2,653 posts)Don't worship the Goddess.
Bill
Scrivener7
(53,573 posts)no_hypocrisy
(49,607 posts)In 1952, my parents married.
My father was a resident at Manhattan Veterans Administration Hospital, almost a doctor.
My mother had BOTH a bachelor's (Barnard) and a master's (Wellesley).
My father was attracted to my mother's resume and her Jewish heritage. My mother was attracted to the financial security and social status a doctor would offer.
And they seemed good on paper.
But in reality, my father resented my mother was actually more intelligent, cleverer than he was. HE was a doctor. HE had supremacy. I listened to their arguments and Dad couldn't overcome Mom's positions and that made him more angry. He felt castrated. And God help Mom if she did this OUTSIDE the family.
There was no competition of jobs as Dad was a doctor and he refused to allow Mom to work outside the house.
FWIW, Mom refused to relinquish her gift to Dad, marriage or no marriage. Dad tried to denigrate her by comparing her to Alice Kramden and her caustic remarks to her husband. It didn't work. Dad tried to boss Mom around. Sometimes, she'd go along if only to maintain the peace in the house. I'm sure that Mom resented Dad doing this in front of me and my siblings.
I can't imagine being married to someone whose mission would be to tear me down at every opportunity.
C0RI0LANUS
(2,478 posts)
The officially-certified votes from the 2016 presidential race showed that Hillary Clinton surpassed Donald Trump in the national popular vote by nearly 2.9 million votes.
Clinton amassed 65,844,610 votes across all 50 states and Washington DC, 48.2% of all votes cast. Trump received 62,979,636 votes, 46.1 percent of all votes cast.
Clinton had 2,864,974 votes more than Trump, the largest popular vote margin of any losing presidential candidate in US history, according to the AP.
The depressed Democratic and Independent turnout in 2024 was most likely the anti-war Democrats and Independents staying home, similar to what happened to Democrat VPOTUS Hubert Humphrey in 1968. The anti-war element of our party didn't support the war in Vietnam back then just as they didn't support the war in Gaza in 2024. Rather than vote for Trumpf or Jill Stein, they voted for neither. This resulted in a massive collective abstention. They are the missing Democrats and Independents who voted for Biden/Harris in 2020 but not Harris/Walz in 2024.
Link:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-officially-wins-popular-vote-29-million/story?id=44354341
Babajida
(78 posts)I had the same question on reading that - why do men hate woman so much. And some days I just want to go live in a tree, far far away from human society.
https://www.the-independent.com/asia/south-asia/taliban-afghanistan-ban-windows-women-b2672332.html
Heather Barr, the interim deputy director of women’s rights at Human Rights Watch, told The Independent: “People have talked about the Taliban metaphorically erasing women, but increasingly, it is not metaphorical at all.
“They have already ordered that women’s voices shouldn’t be heard in public, and now they are essentially stopping women from even looking out of the window.
“They are stopping women from being seen. They are stopping women from seeing the world. It’s a total annihilation of women’s personhood and it is clearly ongoing. We don’t have any idea where this will end.”
orleans
(35,466 posts)i tried to imagine that sort of life -- that nothing life -- for women.
it's as if they are prisoners of the wicked males of that country
human rights?
what is happening to them is a crime against humanity
Elessar Zappa
(16,245 posts)
Oneironaut
(5,839 posts)It’s very much related to how white people are terrified of minorities gaining social power. They’re afraid of “reverse racism” and bullshit like that.
They’re pathetic people with an inferiority / victimhood complex.
GoreWon2000
(1,163 posts)Men and especially white, anglo men don't want to give up the power base they've controlled since before our country was a country. It's also because since men can't get pregnant and reproduce on their own, they want to be able to control who can get pregnant which is women.