One of the Keys to opening the door to 12 Step Programs.. What is a Higher Power.?

[progree]

7. The whole program and Big Book is God this and God that. Explicitely. Over and over.

[font color = blue]NMDemDist>>4. I don't let people off easy when they start spouting God this and that in a meeting
and Dawg forbid they quote "the other Big Book" when I'm around. I feed it to them. Hard. With both barrels. <<[/font] (emphasis added)

This only confirms my impression that there are enormous regional differences between meetings. In Minneapolis, if you objected to someone sharing about "God this and that" in a meeting, virtually everybody would be giving it to you. Hard.

After all, the Steps are full of God this and that, as is Tradition 2. Kind of hard, when the topic is Step 3, 6, 7, or 11, to avoid talking about God this and God that.

Or in groups that read "How It Works", as many do, up through the Three Pertinent Ideas (BB p. 58-60). In that 2 1/2 page reading, the word "God" appears 6 times, and reference to him (namely Him and His) appear 3 times, not counting those that appear in the same sentence as "God" or each other.

Or in Big Book meetings - the word "God" appears in the first 11 chapters 136 times. That doesn't include Him, His, He, Maker, Creator, Employer, Principal, Father, or various descriptions of Him like assigner or our roles, giver of our sex powers, provider of our needs, something other than our well-loved A.A. group, no human power, nor any other human being, accomplisher of the humanly impossible, divine, Providence, has all knowledge and power ... for that list, with all documented quotes, please see http://www.democraticunderground.com/1144174#post32

Also at that link is all the ways the Big Book pushes a clear deity version of God, and repeatedly makes clear that it's not something human. And hurls insult after insult at agnostics (kind of strange in a program that is supposedly non-religious, to bash non-believers in deities and the supernatural, don't you think?).

[font color = blue]NMDemDist>>'The Universe' (for lack of a better term) came in to support me in concrete ways. Parking spots. Overheard conversations with answers I needed at the time. A feeling of belonging to something. <<[/font]

I'm sure glad it works for you. I've long and closely considered Universe, and Nature (both are suggested as a possible "God" in "The Helpful Concepts of the EA Program&quot . But neither in my mind have intelligence or awareness of me or a kindly (or unkindly) disposition to me, or anyone else, or anything that's going to give oomph to a dead car battery. If they did, that would be another form of deity and supernaturalism (frankly religion), which I don't believe in. I also can't help but think of hurricanes, tornados, and earthquakes (they are indeed higher powers, but definitely not anything that will aid my recovery. I'm definitely not going to turn my will and life over to a tornado if I can help it). But if "the universe" works for you for 21 years, by all means stick with it!

[font color = blue]NMDemDist>>While AA is definitively written as a spiritual program, it's program of action is suitable for anyone of any persuasion. <<[/font]

I don't have any problem with "spiritual". I am very spiritual. It's that it is also religious that bothers me more and more. (And all 4 federal appeals courts and both state supreme courts that have heard these cases agree). As a church-state separatist activist, I have less and less tolerance for religious proselytization in a program that claims to be not religious. All that is in http://www.democraticunderground.com/1144174#post32 as well as having to listen to all those awful shares about how God (and they clearly are referring to a deity version, not anything human, often they are explicit about that) is helping them with car batteries, and burning down troublesome rental properties (resulting in a great insurance settlement).

Particularly all the ways this deity "God" is helping their cars and their driving -- I keep thinking of when I lived in Lagos, Nigeria, and I didn't see any wheel chairs, but rather people with very long distended less-than-useless legs (polio?) got around by "walking" on blocks strapped to their forearms. Why was some deity God helping wealthy American alcoholics with their cars while these poor people with their forearm blocks are begging and dying in the dirty sidewalks and streets? Sounds like a Republican version of God to me. (The Big Book makes clear there is One God, and an all-powerful God with "Infinite Power and Love" -- again see post #32)

Given that 74% of newcomers leave A.A. within a year ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/1144293#post27 ), and given all the A.A. haters out there (which I'm not, but try Googling "AA Sucks" or "AA Cult" or "13th stepping" or "without aa&quot , I have big doubts that it is suitable for everyone. Besides all the deception about its religiosity, is the experience in many (not all) groups where what was a soft-pedal lovefest approach in the beginning turns into something akin to boot camp a few weeks later as the sponsor and the group apply more and more pressure.

Oh, I got a lot out of it in the early months and years of sobriety -- something sober to do, usually interesting, accountability to the group, group support (as long as I kept my mouth shut about certain issues) -- and similarly other 12-step groups. And a lot of cognitive tools (e.g. some of the slogans and sayings). I'd strongly urge any atheist and non-atheists to try it out -- try several different groups before making a decision. But unfortunately, I've been getting less and less out of it as the years go on. Too much reading of "Church and State", the magazine of the Americans United For Separation of Church and State (http://www.au.org).