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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
29. What I'm saying is that BOTH groups have real ties to this land.
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 05:03 PM
Mar 2017

That it was never "a land without people".

That it was unacceptable for the settlers to show up in the West Bank and argue that the land was theirs and that people who had been their for at least fourteen centuries were intruders and should either live in submission or just leave.

Something along the lines of "parity of esteem", the concept they used to make peace in Northern Ireland, is needed.

Also, there needs to be a clear recognition that it's demagogic and inflammatory to use the terms "Israel" and "the Jews&quot as Netanyahu repeatedly does)as synonyms. Israel is a country. Jewish people are a variety of related ethnic and religious communities both within Israel and throughout the world. Israel is NOT the world's Jewish communities OR Judaism as a religion, and the communities are neither unquestioning supporters of everything the Israeli government does nor responsible for that government's actions.

I have never defended Hamas. I wish that organization didn't exist. But it has the strength it does in significant measure because in the Eighties, the Likud and national unity governments of the era encouraged its growth-they were obsessed above all else with weakening the PLO, despite the fact that there was never any possibility that the fall of the PLO could have led to a Palestinian leadership more to the Israeli government's liking, and none that would ever have had the credibility among Palestinians to make any agreement it signed stick.

In the Nineties, when the PLO WAS working with the Israeli government of the day for peace, that government kept sabotaging the PLO by building more and more settlements and effectively taking more and more land. The humiliation of the PLO, culminating in the useless tactic of putting Arafat himself under siege in Ramallah, discredited that organization and led to the rise of Hamas.

What else could ever possibly have happened?

It's not about "do-overs". It's about actually ending the war. The only war for this conflict to end is for their to be no winner and no loser-for their to be an honorable draw. This is why the Palestinians should get the whole West Bank. Israel loses nothing in that(the country never needed the West Bank in any practical sense, and certainly doesn't need it if a true peace is actually achieved), and it allows the Palestinian leaders that do sign an agreement to say "we weren't humiliated, we weren't shamed".

Military victory, as we used to know it, is useless in the Israel/Palestine context, because it can never be permanent.

BTW....nobody who defends the West Bank settlement project wants peace. The people who defend that want conquest, and the taking of land for the SAKE of taking the land, as an ideological end in itself. They don't CARE if taking the West Bank means the war never, ever ends.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

"this woman was unwilling to admit that Muslims would commit such a horrific attack" ck4829 Feb 2017 #1
Let's not forget leftynyc Feb 2017 #2
"Offered" a state by colonialists wellst0nev0ter Feb 2017 #5
Now we're considering leftynyc Feb 2017 #6
Yes, the plan was drawn up by a bunch of former colonists wellst0nev0ter Feb 2017 #9
Non-natives? leftynyc Feb 2017 #10
"I'm guessing, you think terrorism should be rewarded" wellst0nev0ter Feb 2017 #11
I'm sure you must know leftynyc Feb 2017 #14
So how should the non-natives be accommodated hack89 Feb 2017 #12
It was never a colony sabbat hunter Feb 2017 #22
How else will they get a state? By seizing one through violence? hack89 Feb 2017 #7
It is an interesting read. The problem I have with it is that, DanTex Feb 2017 #3
Only one side has proven leftynyc Feb 2017 #4
Nothing would be better if the unjust occupation of Gaza had continued. Ken Burch Feb 2017 #13
You OBVIOUSLY have zero leftynyc Feb 2017 #15
I don't desire any such thing. Ken Burch Feb 2017 #16
You honestly don't think leftynyc Feb 2017 #17
Nothing has constrained Netanyahu from doing anything he wanted. Ken Burch Feb 2017 #18
Oh spare me leftynyc Feb 2017 #19
Israel as a country has humanity, as do ordinary Palestinians on a person-to-person basis. Ken Burch Feb 2017 #20
The stabbing leftynyc Feb 2017 #21
That leaves an implied sylogism that forces an obvious question FBaggins Mar 2017 #44
My theory: more than anything else, it's the pragmatic need to present the appearance Ken Burch Mar 2017 #45
SO HOW THE HELL did it all start? Israeli Feb 2017 #25
If you think continuing leftynyc Feb 2017 #26
You should remember that "Israeli" actually lives in Israel. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #27
I'm very well aware of where leftynyc Mar 2017 #28
What I'm saying is that BOTH groups have real ties to this land. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #29
Have you ever been to Israel? leftynyc Mar 2017 #30
If you detest Netanyahu, then you should call him out on his habit of equating any disagreement Ken Burch Mar 2017 #31
Trying to pretend leftynyc Mar 2017 #33
If I shake my fists at rank-and-file Palestinians, all of whom are powerless Ken Burch Mar 2017 #34
well said Ken .... Israeli Mar 2017 #35
Spare me the revisionism leftynyc Mar 2017 #36
I didn't lie. I don't have time to go back and check, but the implication was always there. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #37
ALWAYS there? leftynyc Mar 2017 #39
I realize that you think that. There have always been SOME people who have done that. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #41
"" I have no intention of proving myself to you because I don't care enough to take the time.' "" Israeli Mar 2017 #38
So much space leftynyc Mar 2017 #40
Shame ....... Israeli Mar 2017 #42
alternativly ..... Israeli Mar 2017 #43
BTW - your statement leftynyc Feb 2017 #24
Hamas sabbat hunter Feb 2017 #23
There is no way to defeat them without using completely scorched-earth tactics. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #32
Fantastic read. Thank you so much for posting this, Leftnyc. grossproffit Feb 2017 #8
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