I really don't get the willingness of so many here to believe everything that sources they NEVER would have trusted 3 months ago have written. I do understand the fear of loss of privacy and remember the discussions back in December 2006 and August 2007 on FISA. Those discussions - even among angry people - were at least reasonable and avoided going for the rhetorical stratosphere.
I was with my brother, who works for microsoft, a week ago. His comment was there was nothing in the Snowden/Greenwald disclosures on the "secret" NSA progams that he had not read in the industry press. For me, there was nothing on the phone records that I did not hear in 2006/2007. In fact the biggest controversy than was the retroactive immunity for the telcos and the Bush administration. ALL of the NEW things Snowden put out were on things like hacking Chinese systems and spying at the G8 or G20 meeting - things that definitely harmed American diplomacy.
Remembering back to DU2, I remember learning never to post anything on Kerry in GD - and to stay in GDP. Though they were supposed to be based on whether they were about a political race, the fact was there were two different populations there. GD was where Kuchinich, Grayson, Weiner and Nader were more respected than Obama, Kerry or anyone else. Looking at the names most prevalent on many many threads, they are either new or the GD people. There are some GDP people - but there is a huge amount of bullying they face. (Prosense, I don't know how you have the strength to do what you do, but you are incredible.)
I also think that the Snowden controversy has hit on a crack in the left of the Democratic party. I remember speaking to my daughter who graduated college in 2009 back when Obama was elected. She cautioned then that while nearly everyone at her MA college voted for Obama - many were not liberal. She argued that many libertarians in college at that time sided with Obama because they hated the Republicans. Her view is that many would not likely remain Democrats.
I suspect that many of the more moderate (GDP like) people are either taking a break until Snowden's cannonization is over or DU might have reached a tipping point where it becomes too libertarian/left for most people who believe that Democrats can make a difference.
What is strange is that this is happening at a point where Democrats could be on the verge of making the case that Democratic policies saved the economy and that with the unexpected reductions in the deficit that that money be used in calculations on sequestration. At this point, the deficit is LOWER than sequestration was suppose to take it. This could then be used to restore all the safety net programs. The primary affect is to hep those hurt, but in doing it you create more jobs.
I hope this negativity on Obama , which is beyond offensive, stops really soon. In addition to the far left who have always taken those positions, it seems that there are a LOT of very new posters. Some of them are extremely aggressive in attacking anyone who does not think that Obama is - as you said - like Pinochet.
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