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Fiendish Thingy

(20,841 posts)
12. Easily refuted clickbait nonsense
Wed Sep 24, 2025, 09:13 AM
Yesterday

Yesterday’s Atlantic:

The people who are still convinced Kamala won.

https://apple.news/AJFb2dghVTXWC1X3bIepozQ

One popular example alleges that an NSA audit of the 2024 election found that Harris, not Trump, had actually won, according to a former CIA officer who allegedly participated in the audit. On July 31, an anonymous Substack newsletter called This Will Hold, which claims to offer “the truth they’re not telling you,” published a post stating, “In an exclusive interview, former CIA operative Adam Zarnowski laid out pieces of an intricate network of bad actors and covert operations behind transnational organized crime and the stolen 2024 election.” It adds that “none of his revelations are classified” and that Zarnowski “is prepared to testify under oath.” The implication of this bombshell is clear to the author: “We have the authority and the obligation to remove this entire unelected, illegitimate regime.”

The theory has many problems. No evidence exists for Zarnowski’s claims about his background other than his own word. Elsewhere, a LinkedIn profile calls him a “former CIA paramilitary operations officer” and an expert in the subject of human trafficking, but nothing suggests his statistical or elections expertise; a self-published book is full of oddball claims. I attempted to reach Zarnowski using a couple of different methods but received no response. (Snopes, which was able to contact Zarnowski, reported that he did not provide definitive proof of his professional background or the alleged audit.)

Moreover, nothing in the Substack post actually supports Zarnowski’s claims; instead, it offers innuendo about voting-machine failures and the companies that sell elections equipment. Neither the NSA nor any other federal agency conducts elections audits, nor is there any plausible explanation for why they would do so. The absence of an actual audit here or anywhere else is notable: As with the claims offered by Trump and his allies in 2020 and 2021, the theory relies on implication, with hard evidence seemingly always just out of reach.

But there are more fundamental issues of logic in the theory. States actually do conduct audits of their votes, and unlike the supposed NSA audit, the process and results of those reviews are public. The theory appears to suppose that Democratic officials in key swing states conspired to help Trump and hurt Harris, for whatever unstated reason. These claims “ring as hollow and grifting as nearly identical claims made by those who profited off the Big Lie that Trump didn’t lose the 2020 election,” David Becker, the executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research, a nonpartisan nonprofit, wrote in an email.


Much more at link, or go to the Atlantic site.

Recommendations

12 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I remain doubting malaise [View all] malaise Yesterday OP
Kamala won gab13by13 Yesterday #1
In NC, barbtries Yesterday #9
This. Many of us here don't, and I'm one too. ms liberty 23 hrs ago #19
Two Months Between Election and Inauguration Mr.Bee 22 hrs ago #35
Paper ballot hand recounts were necessary. yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #110
I kept screaming for recounts on social media and to the dem leadership. 58Sunliner 12 hrs ago #156
Yup. I was jumping up and down... yellow dahlia 12 hrs ago #158
No one wanted to pay the hundreds of millions they would have cost n/t MichMan 11 hrs ago #160
Unfortunate, given the costs to this country right now. yellow dahlia 11 hrs ago #161
Same in Michigan. Kid Berwyn 15 hrs ago #87
Same with Oakland County. llmart 13 hrs ago #146
Not Believable. yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #109
When 90 percent of districts moved right, it's not a surprise Harris didn't flip any EdmondDantes_ 23 hrs ago #14
This interview did not give enough time angryxyouth 21 hrs ago #55
I've gone to their website. It's not even remotely evidence EdmondDantes_ 21 hrs ago #58
They don't claim to have the evidence. Chemical Bill 13 hrs ago #133
The election truth alliance sure spends a lot of time arguing that they have evidence EdmondDantes_ 10 hrs ago #166
What I would like to see are a bunch of controls intrepidity 13 hrs ago #128
Election denialism doesn't serve our cause Fiendish Thingy 23 hrs ago #15
Unless we figure out a way to stop it. I'm sure that is where they are going next Maraya1969 22 hrs ago #31
How can you stop something that isn't happening? Nt Fiendish Thingy 18 hrs ago #67
So sus! yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #112
Election fraud denialism hasn't served our cause these past 25 years. Chemical Bill 13 hrs ago #135
2000 wasn't an election fraud issue Fiendish Thingy 13 hrs ago #147
Well... Chemical Bill 11 hrs ago #162
Words have meaning Fiendish Thingy 10 hrs ago #163
The recounts in 2016 showed... Chemical Bill 10 hrs ago #164
Jill Stein paid for recounts in a few states MichMan 10 hrs ago #168
Typically Recounts aren't done unless the margin is Fiendish Thingy 9 hrs ago #171
Actually what is being shown is the reported totals don't seem to be accurate questionseverything 2 hrs ago #173
ding. the election was stolen AllaN01Bear 23 hrs ago #29
Yup! yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #108
He overperformed nearly everywhere Polybius 13 hrs ago #130
I wake up every morning and the things about which I have certainty continue to diminish.... hlthe2b Yesterday #2
Pakman is not credible SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #3
If you go to their website, the "evidence" is non-existent EdmondDantes_ Yesterday #10
Trump administration is manipulating employment and autism statistics bucolic_frolic Yesterday #4
manipulating? barbtries Yesterday #8
Trump pulling numbers out of his ass is not data manipulation. Wiz Imp 13 hrs ago #142
Please stop it. They have not manipulated employment data. Wiz Imp 13 hrs ago #140
He fired the statistician because he didn't like the numbers. So you please open your eyes. /nt bucolic_frolic 13 hrs ago #143
Don't even go there. You're way out of your league. Wiz Imp 12 hrs ago #157
me too Malaise. barbtries Yesterday #5
I mean it's not like they didn't steal elections before. gab13by13 23 hrs ago #13
thank you for remembering, especially Ohio barbtries 23 hrs ago #17
Right yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #114
And Humphrey would have won had nixon not committed treason. Clouds Passing 23 hrs ago #24
I don't know this story, barbtries 22 hrs ago #32
Thom Hartmann tells the story about how Nixon went to the Vietnamese and asking them Clouds Passing 15 hrs ago #96
Thom Hartmann tells the story. The Nixon people negotiated with the Vietnamese to continue the war Clouds Passing 15 hrs ago #98
The party of "family values" is devoid of values. Bluepinky 22 hrs ago #30
I think Kamala won. Al Gore won. John Kerry won. Mr.Bee 22 hrs ago #37
yep. barbtries 22 hrs ago #40
legitimately elected president Mr.Bee 22 hrs ago #48
Absolutely -so cataclysmic and catastrophic. yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #115
Don't forget Hillary. Chemical Bill 13 hrs ago #138
Yup! yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #113
"Bombshell" my ass. "Clickbait," more like. malthaussen Yesterday #6
Comparing 2020 to 2024 is meaningless. gab13by13 23 hrs ago #18
Nope, it's the same ridiculous conspiracy theories, just different mouths moving. tritsofme 17 hrs ago #72
Agree yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #116
You're never gonna give this one up, are ya? Polybius 13 hrs ago #131
In 2020, there were hand counted paper ballot recounts. Chemical Bill 13 hrs ago #139
Kamala won. Musk, Peter Theil, Palantir, Eaton, and others were into the vote data. Botany Yesterday #7
I heard the tabulators used cellular uplinks IbogaProject 22 hrs ago #46
Musk had 265 low earth orbit satellites turned on on October, 30 2024 that gave him and his crews Botany 20 hrs ago #61
They even bragged about it. yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #119
This! yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #118
Absofuckinglutely! yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #117
I just wat to say one word: Duh! slightlv Yesterday #11
Easily refuted clickbait nonsense Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #12
A forensic audit was never done, gab13by13 23 hrs ago #16
There's no such thing Fiendish Thingy 23 hrs ago #22
You don't listen to the material and you present an article that uses a " theory " that is clearly explained away questionseverything 15 hrs ago #84
Blah, blah, blah Fiendish Thingy 15 hrs ago #89
So you are admitting you have not read or listened to any of the material presented questionseverything 15 hrs ago #91
I have been exposed to every evidence-free, cockamamie 2024 election-denying conspiracy theory out there Fiendish Thingy 15 hrs ago #94
I heard they stole it using Jewish Space Lasers! 🤣🙄 Wiz Imp 13 hrs ago #145
From one member of the reality based community to another... Fiendish Thingy 13 hrs ago #148
I am right there with you, malaise. llmart 23 hrs ago #20
Agree. yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #121
It's hard for me to believe that Trump's army of marching morons totaled 77,000,000 Americans RVN VET71 23 hrs ago #21
I wrote about it in February Mr.Bee 23 hrs ago #23
And it was removed, wasn't it? MichMan 23 hrs ago #27
Sounds like the jury made a wise decision. tritsofme 17 hrs ago #73
How about AverageOldGuy 23 hrs ago #25
2034 Mr.Bee 22 hrs ago #38
My concern is there won't be an election in 2026. rubbersole 21 hrs ago #51
Me too. Kid Berwyn 23 hrs ago #26
Agree karin_sj 23 hrs ago #28
The real question we need to be asking ourselves KS Toronado 22 hrs ago #33
THIS malaise 22 hrs ago #42
Let me help you out Malaise..... KS Toronado 22 hrs ago #43
YES. fully agree. I and i feel ALL others here cannot prove 100% if the election WAS or WAS NOT stolen. bluestarone 21 hrs ago #60
I have often wondered why someone in our party KS Toronado 20 hrs ago #62
What polls are you talking about? EdmondDantes_ 19 hrs ago #65
Prior to the election there were plenty of pools showing us winning KS Toronado 17 hrs ago #68
That's not an answer EdmondDantes_ 17 hrs ago #69
Why are you attacking me? KS Toronado 17 hrs ago #74
Nothing I have said is even remotely an attack EdmondDantes_ 15 hrs ago #85
Because this entire election denial narrative is garbage? tritsofme 17 hrs ago #75
Transparency in elections is not nonsense ...Geesh questionseverything 15 hrs ago #90
No, but these delusional conspiracy theories sure are. tritsofme 15 hrs ago #99
Ms Harris is not a computer scientist or programmer so how could this be on her? questionseverything 14 hrs ago #106
All we need to do is handcount the precincts that are suspicious in Pennsylvania questionseverything 16 hrs ago #83
Been doing ouside duties here. I've heard of NO surveys being done. bluestarone 14 hrs ago #100
Elias is a lawyer not a computer programmer questionseverything 14 hrs ago #105
Hasn't he watched all the same videos that claim to prove it was stolen? MichMan 14 hrs ago #107
Right. yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #126
I do understand that. bluestarone 13 hrs ago #137
I wonder if Marc Elias was advised to stay away from any form of yellow dahlia 14 hrs ago #124
So you're questioning the integrity of Marc Elias? Wiz Imp 13 hrs ago #149
I LOVE Marc Elias. yellow dahlia 12 hrs ago #152
If you think Marc Elias would listen to the consultants, you're absolutely questioning Wiz Imp 12 hrs ago #155
If you know him, and apparently you profess to, yellow dahlia 12 hrs ago #159
Now these delusional conspiracy theories make people like Marc Elias complicit in covering up a stolen election? tritsofme 10 hrs ago #165
Are you accusing me of asserting that Marc Elias was complicit yellow dahlia 10 hrs ago #167
Your post absolutely accuses Elias of being complicit tritsofme 9 hrs ago #169
I never accused Marc Elias of being complicit in a cover up. yellow dahlia 9 hrs ago #170
First we have to identify the problem questionseverything 14 hrs ago #103
You don't have to get conspiratorial, they cheated in the usual and obvious ways unblock 22 hrs ago #34
All true, in addition why would Musk spend nearly 300 million if they could win by cheating the system anyway. . Doodley 21 hrs ago #59
I do have a theory about musk buying those names of people that weren't registered to vote yet questionseverything 15 hrs ago #93
And if Musk could cheat to elect Trump, why didn't it work in the Wisconsin SC election? Wiz Imp 12 hrs ago #150
We all pretty much agree that repubs cheat every chance they get questionseverything 15 hrs ago #86
There's certainly no sense of ethics at work there, to be sure. unblock 13 hrs ago #141
I mean. He won enough. For instance (anecdotal) SSJVegeta 22 hrs ago #36
Yep I felt the fix was in as soon as Oct 7 happened IbogaProject 22 hrs ago #50
Yup SSJVegeta 21 hrs ago #53
Every one of these arguments SCantiGOP 22 hrs ago #39
Why is david pakman promoting this BS? SSJVegeta 21 hrs ago #54
smartelections.us, a nonpartisan organization, is also looking into election fraud via computerized voting systems. Bluepinky 22 hrs ago #41
If it is so widespread, why choose a few tiny precincts in a state that Harris won? MichMan 22 hrs ago #45
Go to their website and watch the videos about their findings, very informative. Bluepinky 22 hrs ago #49
What happens if the hand count in Rockland County NY doesn't pan out to show anything nefarious? MichMan 14 hrs ago #102
We won't know until it's completed. Let's see what it shows. Bluepinky 14 hrs ago #122
The Rockland County lawsuit is a joke. Wiz Imp 12 hrs ago #151
Why would you say that? All they want is to hand count the ballots questionseverything 2 hrs ago #175
If there is anyone in the world that would try to steal an election... kentuck 22 hrs ago #44
SmartEleactions.us Sept 29, 8 pm ET. Election Verification Orientation. annielion 22 hrs ago #47
That's great! SmartElections.us is so important and informative. Bluepinky 21 hrs ago #52
De rec. Sorry sis, but on this subject we most definitely part ways. Celerity 21 hrs ago #56
Just out of curiosity, do you acknowledge that volkswagons cheating software existed? questionseverything 14 hrs ago #125
I live in a swing state, Georgia. We received 12, yes 12, no exaggeration 12 flyers for Trump. None for Harris. Doodley 21 hrs ago #57
Both may be true. Bluepinky 19 hrs ago #66
Doubt the 2024 POTUS election more over time. PufPuf23 20 hrs ago #63
Saw that. returnee 19 hrs ago #64
Another angle: returnee 17 hrs ago #70
Yes. I have identified the same possible reverse psy-ops type technique. yellow dahlia 13 hrs ago #129
This election denial nonsense is actually a malicious attack on the character of Kamala Harris tritsofme 17 hrs ago #71
And the elected officials of the swing states MichMan 14 hrs ago #101
Exactly. These attacks against Harris and Democrats really are pathetic. tritsofme 14 hrs ago #104
It took months and dozens of workers to find this evidence questionseverything 14 hrs ago #111
Yet within minutes of Harris' concession people were already pushing unfounded conspiracy theories. tritsofme 14 hrs ago #120
How would they catch it? Can they look into the computer guts questionseverything 14 hrs ago #123
There was nothing to catch, except in the imagination of the folks so enthralled with these conspiracy theories. tritsofme 13 hrs ago #127
I never thought he won fair and square and the muskrat rigged the election in his favor kimbutgar 16 hrs ago #76
Sounds like the exact same sort of election denial conspiracy theories Trumpers pushed in 2020. tritsofme 16 hrs ago #77
I agree with your comment and for a long time didn't want to think it was real but as time goes on I feel that way. kimbutgar 16 hrs ago #78
I'm disappointed and angry with my neighbors for choosing this evil tritsofme 16 hrs ago #79
Which voting machine companies are owned by democrats? questionseverything 15 hrs ago #95
Not just many, ALL of the swing states except for Georgia had Democratic Governors Wiz Imp 12 hrs ago #153
Repubs don't have to control the state, they already control the vote counting and reporting machines questionseverything 15 hrs ago #88
To think he won honestly is to defy logic, common sense, and facts. Irish_Dem 16 hrs ago #80
Ding ding malaise 15 hrs ago #92
If this were a criminal investigation it would be a slam dunk. Irish_Dem 15 hrs ago #97
Always ask the question - who benefits? yellow dahlia 13 hrs ago #134
Yep Irish_Dem 13 hrs ago #136
Yup! and Yup! yellow dahlia 13 hrs ago #132
Not enough data to convince me, but Coldwater 16 hrs ago #81
I don't know where you were, but Trump wasn't remotely quiet immediately after the election Wiz Imp 12 hrs ago #154
I like mayonnaise, also. Much better than miracle whip. madinmaryland 16 hrs ago #82
K&R spanone 13 hrs ago #144
We know she actually won Roxi 8 hrs ago #172
I hope we know tge truth before I croak malaise 2 hrs ago #174
I never thought Trump won. OLDMDDEM 1 hr ago #176
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