Accidental shooting deaths of children *hugely under-reported*

[Robb]

The New York Times yesterday highlighted shocking under-reporting of accidental gun deaths of children in America. The newspaper compiled a report on this problem going back to 1999 which highlights inaccuracies in official statistics quoted.

The New York Times investigated child shootings and tried to identify every firearm accident resulting in the death of a child under the age of 14 in Georgia, Minnesota, Ohio and North Carolina dating back to 1999. The investigation only went back to 2007 in California, but also looked at medical examiners' records for Florida, Texas and Illinois. The newspaper recorded 259 child gun deaths from accidental causes during this investigation. In four of the five states investigated the Times found twice the amount of accidental killings recorded in federal data. In the fifth state there were 50 percent more accidental deaths.

The New York Daily News also reported on what it calls this "American epidemic" of child gun deaths back in July of this year. The report claimed accidental gun deaths of children to be under-reported by up to 90 percent.

This undercount is a result of peculiarities in medical and coroners' rulings which often state cause of death as homicide. An example of a child's death reported as homicide happened In Bexar County, Texas, where a nine-month-old was accidentally killed in his crib by his two-year-old brother who opened a dresser drawer, grabbed a pistol and shot his infant brother. The New York Times story highlights a number of similar family tragedies, with around 60 percent of the shootings involving handguns and half of the accidents taking place in the child's own home.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/359264

[elleng]

1. EXACTLY!

[Loudly]

2. America loves guns and ammo more than it loves children.

More than it even loves unborn children, I'd wager.

[abelenkpe]

3. Adults

should be required by law to keep guns safely locked away around children at all times. Yes, it would be inconvenient like having to purchase a child safety seat, but it would save thousands of children every year.

[Turbineguy]

4. You would think the NRA would want this reported.

The more shootings the better!

More people shot! Quick! Go out and buy 10 guns!

[enough]

5. Link to the very extensive NYT report:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130929&_r=0

[rdharma]

6. What's wrong with some "responsible" Amercan gun owners?

Lucas Heagren with his father, Joshua, on Christmas 2011, holding a .22 rifle that was a present. The photograph was evidence in Mr. Heagren's negligent homicide trial after Lucas shot himself.

Read more here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[JEFF9K]

7. If these were fetuses instead of children, conservatives would take action!

[SoutherDem]

8. I honestly thought people would be upset by the opposite

Every child's death is a tragedy, no matter homicide, accidental or suicide and unless I misread the article the deaths were recorded, just not as accidents.

I would have thought calling them accidents would cause more problems than calling them homicides because homicides implies at the hands of another (not necessarily on purpose). Someone was responsible, in my opinion the adult owner. Accident, to me, implies no fault and if the guns were secured, as responsible gun owners do, the children can't get to them in the first place.

Hiding a loaded gun under a couch, loaning a gun to a 12 year old, allowing an 11 year old access to a unlocked gun cabinet (it should have been locked), having a loaded gun in a drawer close to a crib, or under a pillow are all examples of people being negligent with their guns and yes they do hold them responsible. To me those were not examples of accidents but negligent homicide.

An accident would be dropping the gun while storing it and it goes off (something which is extremely rare for a modern gun in working order) or catching the trigger while holstering a "locked and loaded" pistol (also rare but it does happen). Suicide should only be used if the person intended on killing themselves and keeping guns away from unsupervised children would prevent most of those.

Responsible (legal) gun owners do secure their guns in one way or another. If they choose to teach their children about guns they secure them away from them unless they are with them constantly supervising them.

As to the NRA I do not belong to the NRA and do not support many of their opinions, so I can't answer for them, but I see no problem holding gun owners responsible for securing their guns (within reason) especially around children.

In closing those deaths are tragic and calling many of them accidents I feel would be improper. But, please do not lump all legal gun owners into one big group. There are no children in my house but I do keep my guns secure and unloaded with the exception of the pistol I carry, it is loaded but it is always in one of three places secured at home, on my person or temporally locked in my car (to run into the bank or some place I can't carry my gun legally).

[Robb]

9. It's just another way to minimize the statistics.

The more you break the child deaths down, the less awful they sound.

As in, "Oh, look, there's no problem marketing guns to kids, there were only six kids killed by pink guns last month."

[SoutherDem]

10. Nothing is minimized

All deaths are still reported plus it seems I have heard anger from those on your side when a child is shot and it is called an accident and not a homicide because someone needs to be blamed, which is why I responded to the OP.
As to marketing could you provide an example, I am not sure where you are going.
Also if I made the pink gun statement I would have been alerted for being insensitive.

[Robb]

11. Insensitive?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2316083

Sell it somewhere else.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. You would probably be banned if you made that "pink gun" statement and

I really can't believe that Robb wrote it. Seriously.

[bobclark86]

13. You can't charge someone for an accident.

You can for negligible homicide.

THAT is why a NE report is worse than an accident.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. But they aren't accidents.

They are negligent homicide or some other similar criminal charge.

How does one report them as both an accident and a criminal charge, simultaneously?


A valid scenario of an accident, to me, would be something like: Adult takes a 10 year old hunting. 10 year old manages to shoot himself or someone else. No criminal charge.

A valid scenario of a negligent homicide, again, to me, would be something like: Adult leaves a loaded gun where a 10 year old can find it, 10 year old shoots friend thinking it is a toy.

That latter scenario is not an accident.


I think it's wholly appropriate that these events are prosecuted as crimes, not ignored as accidents.