The incident at the Navy Ship Yard puts two NRA canards to rest.

[flamin lib]

It is now being reported that the killer entered the facility with only a double barreled shotgun. The first casualty was an armed security guard from whom Alexis took an AR15 and a side arm. These were the guns used to kill and wound his victims.

1. Concealed carry makes you safer. Clearly the death of the armed guard proves this to be untrue. The attacker always has the advantage because s/he is prepared to act whereas the victim never is even as a security guard.

2. A good guy with a gun is no defense against a bad guy with a gun.

[Bennyboy]

1. ding ding ding n/t

[JimDandy]

2. K and R. n/t

[Lifelong Protester]

3. My thoughts exactly.

Takes the whole argument about 'a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun' and tosses it out the window.

[DragonBorn]

4. Wrong again.

Takes the whole argument about 'a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun' and tosses it out the window.

Then who stopped the gunman? A samurai? Please enlighten us.

[bobclark86]

5. Judging by the body count...

Nobody.

[Kingofalldems]

8. Yeah they stopped him after he killed 12 people.

Unbelievable post.

[Mojorabbit]

9. I for one, am glad they stopped him before he killed many more people. nt

[Kingofalldems]

10. Who wouldn't be?

[bobclark86]

6. Thing about your first point...

D.C. doesn't have concealed carry permits. Since it's a military installation, nobody would be allowed to carry there other than guards, anyway. The shooter didn't have a handgun to start with, so the bit about him having a CC is moot.

Also, no AR was used, despite early "ZOMG! AR-15!!!" noise from Pierce Morgan and ilk.

HOWEVER, you hit the nail on the head with the last sentence of that point. Hell, not even the second security guard was ready after the first was shot.

[flamin lib]

7. At the time of my post

It was still being reported that an AR was used. News early on is often inaccurate but knowing it wasn't an AR makes me (and the victims) feel SOOOO much better.

Having a CC is not moot. He got one despite two arrests for gun usage, a questionable discharge and psyc issues including hearing voices. That is a major issue in our so called background checks.

Thanks for acknowledging the fallacy of the "good guy with a gun" .

[jimmy the one]

11. DC is may issue ccw

bob clark: D.C. doesn't have concealed carry permits. Since it's a military installation, nobody would be allowed to carry there other than guards, anyway. The shooter didn't have a handgun to start with, so the bit about him having a CC is moot.

You're not wrong, but DC is 'may issue' and allows for getting a concealed carry permit, BUT, it's almost impossible to get one, or at least it used to be prior to heller, dunno what it is now, probably still near impossible since it's discretionary & based on demonstrated need. Dunno either how they handle out of state ccw since heller.
.. I did a lot of work for the navy at that navy yard just across south capitol street bridge across the Anacostia (not Potomac) river. There's a D.E. (destroyer escort) named the USS Barry just under that bridge I worked on when it first arrived, which is docked at the navy yard - not named after him but sorta to 'honor' former mayor ('the bitch set me up') marion barry (lady was in the police sting which caught him buying coke - his d o w n f a l l).
.. It's just down the road a bit from the 'Hawk & Dove' restaurant/bar which is/used to be a popular watering hole for washingtoons. Also not far from mental institute st elizabeths. Bolling (defunct) AFB on the opposite side of the river.

[bobclark86]

12. Nope...

No CC. Heller was about possession (all handguns not registered before 1976 were illegal, everything had to be locked up and disassembled at all times, etc.), not carry.

Also, D.C. doesn't recognize out of state permits, like one issued in Texas.

Not that the guy had a handgun to start with, so the entire discussion is pretty pointless.

[jimmy the one]

13. yep & nope

bob clark: No CC. Heller was about possession (all handguns not registered before 1976 were illegal, everything had to be locked up and disassembled at all times, etc.), not carry.

Evidently DC changed from 'may issue' to prohibited somewhere recently(?), ironically somehow in spite of heller? I can't find the old 'may issue' law but found this link which supports what I say:
1981 May Issue: .... 28 states and Washington D.C.
http://smartgunlaws.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ccw-factsheet.pdf

You are wrong within your parens. Rifles & Shotguns in DC had to be EITHER locked up or trigger locked, OR partially disassembled so that longgun could not be quickly fired. They could be assembled for taking to target range ( think) or for other legal use, which would preclude 'at all times'.

Also, D.C. doesn't recognize out of state permits, like one issued in Texas.

Yes, I came across that, not surprised.

Not that the guy had a handgun to start with, so the entire discussion is pretty pointless.

Not really, tho I originally said you were 'not wrong', and then my contention that DC was may issue is outdated, but then you were wrong about disassembly & lockup of longguns. A push.