Mental Health Support
Related: About this forumLong story short, my daughter is 33, has schizoaffective disorder and is in a mental healthcare center
and has a legal guardian who I have never met or spoken with who has forbidden me to have contact with her. I have never met the woman nor spoken with her and have never been given a reason for the no contact order. The place where she is at is just 40 miles from me and the times she was there before (this is her 5th time) I would visit her every weekend and most times we would have a 4 hour pass. I would always remind her to respect and obey the staff and I always had her back on time.
I have not seen her for 2 years now when all of their life it had never been more than 2 months (I was never married to her mother yet always visited my daughter regularly and for holidays and birthdays, even when I lived hundreds of miles away.)
So I was not allowed to talk with her on the phone except for a couple of times when she managed to get a hold of a phone on her own. When she was moved up to the next unit where she was allowed internet access and she found she could send texts online with her mp3 player (I never knew you could do that). So we communicated that way for a year. Our second to the last email was in June when she said everything was going fine and she should be moving on soon. At the very end of June it was a short message where she just said, "I love you". Then nothing since for 6 months.
Over a year and a half ago I learned that things I had sent to her from Amazon never had the sender's name with them so I could send them anonymously except to her because I sent her something nearly every week that she would know were from me. They were always accepted my the mental health center, never refused or returned so I assumed she was still there since packages delivered by Amazon were signed for by them often with the signer's name and Amazon would notify me of the delivery. Some packages were delivered by the USPS, so I assumed they would legally need to be delivered.
When she was at this place before she was always allowed to open her own cards and packages herself even if she was not allowed to keep them in her room.
My question (at last): How do I know my daughter is receiving the things I have sent her? Over the many months it has added up to hundreds of dollars and everything was food, snacks, and other gifts that I would know she would like and know they were from me. Plus, by their accepting these things it would indicate to me she was still there although it has been 2 years now and she had never been there for as long as a year before going to a group home where she would have her own phones and computer and have her own access to contacting me because they certainly could not deny her access and contact with me for the rest of her life.
Any ideas? Because my heart is breaking although I'm happy that she is safe and warm and being cared for because many mentally ill at this time are homeless and in desperate shape. Thanks for reading this far.
TIA
Ocelot II
(121,732 posts)and why you are not allowed to have contact with your daughter. There must be a record on file somewhere regarding the appointment of this guardian.
SheltieLover
(60,565 posts)Then work to get it overturned.
Good luck.
multigraincracker
(34,466 posts)They are great at getting this kind of info.
sinkingfeeling
(53,380 posts)about the delivery of the packages. If you are listed there as her biological father, they should be allowed to confirm she's there.
Also get an attorney.
thucythucy
(8,782 posts)You might also reach out to a group that specializes in advocating for the rights of people involved in the mental health system. One such group is the National Empowerment Center in Massachusetts. You can Google them to get their contact info. If they can't help they might be able to refer you to people who can.
MindFreedom is another possibility, they're based on the west coast but are national in their focus. Also the Disability Rights Education and Defense Fund--DREDF. Again, they might not be of direct assistance but might be able to refer you to someone or at least provide some basic info.
It would also be a good idea, as suggested in this thread, to find the documentation of the order that prohibits your contact. At the very least her appointed guardian should be willing to talk to you and give you some idea as to why contact is prohibited. She may reply that confidentiality issues prohibit her from saying anything, but it might be helpful for her to know that someone else, out in the world, is thinking about her ward and thus might be in a position to hold her accountable for any less than ethical behavior.
I hope this is helpful.
Best wishes to you and your daughter--
PS--there's another group that might be worth checking out--the Wildflower Alliance, based in western Massachusetts. Same deal--if you're not in their area they might know people nearer to you who can help.
Thucy.
Mike 03
(17,522 posts)of the facility where she is living? One idea might be to explain the situation to the staff, especially if you have a pre-existing relationship with anyone there, and ask them if your packages are being received. I'm sure that does not violate any laws.
My heart goes out to you. This situation, as you've explained it, seems very sad and frustrating. (Maybe there is something I'm not grasping).
But the bigger problem, IMO (and I know nothing about the legalities, but I'm responding as a human being) is you should have a right to know why you are being denied contact and how her guardian was appointed. Was the guardian appointed by a judge? On what basis?
The real issue: Does your daughter want contact with you? What changed between the time you had good contact with her and the prohibition against contact? If it by your daughter's request, why did she make this decision? Or was it made on her behalf by her guardian or someone else? Was she convinced by a therapist or attorney that this was in her best interest? If so, why? Maybe she does want contact with you but was talked into a no contact order by someone else.
It would drive me crazy not understanding what had changed, or who made the changes. You are exercising great restraint and patience IMO.
The safest, most delicate way to go about this might be to hire a lawyer with some experience in family law. But I also don't see anything wrong with making inquiries by sending letters by registered mail, to the facility with questions you have about the things you are sending, and any other questions you have that do not invade her medical privacy. Then I would inquire with the Guardian and the system by which the Guardian was chosen. I just don't know how it is possible this happened without her parent being involved in some capacity--it's not your fault, but it just seems very wrong that the system did not involve you and keep you fully informed.
Anyway, I'm so sorry to read that you are in this current situation.
I hope you can get some answers. You absolutely deserve them!
Ocelot II
(121,732 posts)It's mostly legit, but the fact that you've been prevented from seeing your daughter and that you have never met or spoken with the guardian is a bit worrisome, because there have been a lot of documented abuses of guardianships. Court-appointed but basically unregulated professional guardians sometimes take advantage of their position to siphon funds, either the ward's own or their government befits, for themselves. The more I think about it the more I think you need to contact a lawyer who can help you find out what's really going on. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/feb/17/99-of-the-world-has-no-idea-inside-the-shocking-legal-guardianship-industry
Clouds Passing
(2,969 posts)for you and your daughter. I know your struggle with a child with mental illness
ShazzieB
(19,009 posts)You deserve to know what is going on, including how and why both the guardianship and the no contact order came to be, and trying to deal with that on your own is way above your paygrade.
Most lawyers will give you an initial consultation free of charge. I recommend starting there. Good luck!
erronis
(17,306 posts)They have documented horrible abuses of these systems (especially in NY) and almost no oversight.
quakerboy
(14,213 posts)Two questions to start.
Have you reached out to contact the guardian?
What financial resources does your daughter have?
If you havnt done the first, I'd reccomend doing so. Very politely. Bury any frustration, concerns, and just scout for what you can learn. Hope for the best, but assume that they will be documenting any contact you make.
Being fair to them, you have no idea what she has said to those around her about you. Or how staff interpret her behavior after a call. They may well not have any real info. Care facilities are almost never even close to as organized as we'd like, so there's no way to know if the guardian is even aware of your contacts or the items you send. Or if they are getting to her.
If you get frozen out there, then it's time to get court records for why you are blocked. And maybe a lawyer to challenge it.
As for the second.. motivation. If there's not a trust fund or significant resources, the chances the guardian is in it for the money drops alot. There are many good guardians, most are at least well meaning. But there are some that are dodgy.
elocs
(23,091 posts)My daughter has lost half of her life and all of her life and all of her young adult life to this mental illness which has taken over her life. I would have thought by age 33 she would have graduated college, been married with a couple of kids and I would visit her for birthdays and holidays. But schizoaffective is a 2 for 1 mental illness having schizophrenia and bipolar. I did get a good idea what may be the source of my no contact with my daughter when she emailed me once and wondered why her mother hated me so much. And I now her mother has the ear of the court appointed guardian. She has had several court appointed guardians who are corporate guardians and it depended where in the state she was living and at which mental healthcare facility or group home she was at. I do know that her mother does communicate with this particular guardian and has her ear. And in an email my daughter wrote me that she wondered why her mother hated me so much.
But I never thought this situation would go on as long as it has, that she would pass through this particular mental healthcare center as she has before and move on the a group home and independent living and at the group home she would get her phone and laptop back and we would be able to communicate and see each other again.
As for getting a lawyer goes, I did say in my OP that I was poor and on SS. My daughter is poor and on SSI which has mostly been taken from her since she is in a mental healthcare facility. She has had a lawyer from years ago when she was assaulted by the city police when she was having a breakdown on the city streets and she was convinced to voluntarily get into the back of the squad car to be taken to the nearby hospital. When they drove into the ER bay she was afraid to get out of the car because she thought the police would hurt her, and then they did when one dragged her out of the car and twisted her arm, breaking it in 2 places with a spiral fracture after which she was strapped to a gurney. The police were never punished for this but her lawyer said the DA called them morons for not letting hospital personnel handle things since they were in the ER bay.
I have tried to contact this lawyer again by calling his office with no success. I have gone to the office he shares with a couple of other lawyers but nobody has been there although I can see all the office furniture through the front window until just last week I could see it was cleared out altogether. A Google search still gives his office previous to the most recent one.
But as I have said in my OP, sending her things through Amazon was my way of having contact with her because whoever delivered they, they came anonymous and were never returned. I could send her a box of Lil Debbie oatmeal pies, one of her favorites, and Amazon would deliver them for free. Two birthdays and Christmases. She had always been able to open cards and presents herself in the presence of a staff member even if she could not keep them in her room. Now there is no longer even that connection and I'm at the point in my life now at age 72 I'm sensing the sand running out of the hourglass of my life and I fear that my daughter and I are running out of opportunities to ever be together again. If I were to stop sending even the mostly small things I send and can afford to send I'm sure she would wonder if I'm ok or even still alive. How can the U.S. Mail not allow addressed mail to be delivered, or a staff receptionist to sign for a package for a patient they know may not be even receiving it. I want my daughter to know that I am still here and still trying and in the 33 years we've been father and daughter I never, ever believed we could be separated this way.