Why is so much effort being spent defending a Nazi symbol?

[sarisataka]

I am not talking about a drunk person getting a tattoo that had a meaning they were unaware of. You can believe that or not, it is not germane to my point.

The skull and crossbones has a long history and is used in many contexts even today, e.g. the poison symbol. However the Nazis, particularly the SS, adopted a version of as their symbol; a specific identifiable version.



Now eighty years later not everyone recognizes it anymore; history is a weakness especially in the US. However many people do still recognize it and its history with Nazism. During WW2 it was the symbol millions saw on their guards as they were led to the "showers". Yet many are defending the symbol, even making jokes about it, because it is not universally recognized.

It is fine to admit if you do not recognize the symbol as it was used by the Nazis.
It is fine to say you believe a person made an honest mistake out of ignorance.

However it IS a Nazi symbol.
If you are trying to rehabilitate it you may want to ask yourself why you are doing that.

[lame54]

1. It's either that or Collin's Trump stamp

[sarisataka]

8. So if I am understanding

Nazis symbols are acceptable when politically expedient? Or are they now simply acceptable?

[lame54]

14. Kicking Collins to the curb is acceptable...

I think Maine should have gone with Janet Mills despite her age but
Here we are
Do we want to win this or not
In California- if Becerra turns out to be a Satan worshiper I will still pick him to prevent Trump from owning California
Maine should think the same

[sarisataka]

16. I have no disagreement with that

But that was not ever my point.

As I believe I clearly stated I am asking why Nazi symbols are being defended?

[Figarosmom]

49. I don't think the symbol is being defended

I think what is being defended is the ignorance of the symbol by a young man that has learned better.

When young people pick out tattoos, they pick out cute or tough. I think this guy was thinking it looked tough, not that he was declaring his alliance to an ideology.

[sarisataka]

53. There are several posts below

defending the symbol as not being a Nazi symbol.

It is two very different things to admit one was unaware of Nazi connotation and to try to "cleanse" it by saying similar symbols have been used in other contexts.

[idahoblue]

77. Who is defending a Nazi symbol, other than the far right?

[sarisataka]

79. Read the replies

I do not believe DUers are far right

[buzzycrumbhunger]

128. I don't think it's being defended...

I think it’s being excused as a youthful indiscretion that’s just not easy to erase once regretted. I haven’t seen him promoting Nazi shit anywhere beyond this.

The alternative here is to continue with someone backing our current fascist monster, which is much, much worse. *shrug*

[sarisataka]

131. It is being defended

In this thread

[LisaL]

26. They can still go with Janet Mills.

Primary is next week.

[lame54]

27. Although still on the ballot...

She stepped aside for Platner
Because of the controversy she is starting to campaign but it is probably too late

[LisaL]

32. She is on the ballot and people can vote for her if they wish.

Whether she is actively campaigning or not.

[TVguyCards]

62. Maine does have Ranked Choice Voting

[KS Toronado]

81. Welcome to DU!

[TVguyCards]

85. Thank you :)

[BComplex]

88. Janet Mills polls behind susan collins. Graham polls ahead.

Are we going to try another Biden-Harris last minute switcheroo because the right wing media insists on it yet again, and the conservative democrats jump on the right wing bandwagon? Didn't work out too well in 2024.

[LisaL]

134. Kind of meaningless to consider polling

so far ahead of the election, and before a lot of information about him became public.

[iemanja]

96. You don't have to sell your soul

To want the Democrat to win. There is no excuse for defending this.

[obamanut2012]

122. Mills and Costello are still on the ballot

We rallied around Becerra here when Swalwell was exposed, same can happen in Maine

[Ritabert]

2. If we want to a purity test have Pete Hegseth take off his shirt

Multiple tattoos some of which are white supremacist symbols.

[LisaL]

3. Would anyone here defend Hegseth?

If he had the exact same tattoo.

[Ritabert]

37. Just saying that the GOP has one standard for themselves and one for us.

[Ritabert]

41. Here no. But Republicans and Faux News would.

[Mossfern]

150. My bad opinion of Hegseth

Has nothing to do with his tattoos.

[Jilly_in_VA]

151. For real

It goes WAY beyond that. He could be comepletely un-tatted and I'd still hate him.

[sarisataka]

10. Is anyone defending his tattos

claiming they are not white supremacist?

[LisaL]

11. Or that he got them when he was drunk?

[sarisataka]

17. As I tried pointing out- it is NOT (!!!) about any tattoo

It is about a Nazi symbol. Why are people claiming it is not a Nazi symbol when it has repeated been shown the specific version I posted is a Nazi symbol?
Are we going to start saying well it's not really Nazi because historically the swastika came from....

[ABC123Easy]

20. Yes

Someone sent a hateful reply to my post yesterday saying that exact thing.

I support your argument.

[LisaL]

23. I am agreeing with your points.

[sarisataka]

28. I didn't mean to seem in opposition

but several posters immediately went to what I was not asking.

And there is zero question we would see such defense if the shoe was on the other foot (or skull on the other chest).

[LisaL]

30. Of course people here would not defend Hegesth if he got the exact same tattoo when drunk.

NT

[LAS14]

64. I haven't seen one post claiming it is not a Nazi symbol. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

31. Hegseth is a Republican. Republicans do not have to defend their behavior.

Republicans don't attack republicans, no matter the crime, sin, immorality.

We attack Al Franken because of a joke of questionable taste.

[LisaL]

33. So the argument is, if you can't beat them, join them?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

35. Only if the split in the Senate is close.

If Dems are way up, or way down, we can afford to be judgemental.

It seems there's a funny calculus in this race.

But, to be practical, I'd vote for the Dem.

[Mz Pip]

48. I get the sentiment

It’s pretty hard to stand on high moral ground when the opposition is metaphorically shooting at you. I don’t live in Maine, so it’s not my call. Though, if Republicans can enthusiastically support Trump and Paxton, I suppose I could less than enthusiastically vote for Platner. A vote is a vote regardless of the enthusiasm behind it.

I’m kinda surprised Platner didn’t get the tattoo removed when its history was revealed, though.

[Ritabert]

42. The point being: when did he get the tattoo?

Did he get it with a bunch of buddies who went to a tattoo parlor after drinking? Does he believe anything Nazi? We already know the gang on the right espouse Nazi beliefs.

[AloeVera]

91. Too late. He's already been called a Nazi on DU.

Bet those people didn't care to find out if he has any fascist beliefs.

But the damage is done.

Fwiw now, there is no evidence this jokingly self-proclaimed "supersoldier for antifa" has any fascist or neo-nazi beliefs. None.

[EX500rider]

116. I don't think anyone's called him a Nazi and I don't think he is

And getting a tattoo while drunk is excusable, keeping it for almost 20 years and then having people say you know what it was but then lying and saying you didn't know what it was and then covering it up as soon as the Press finds out seems a lot more questionable to me, ymmv

[Mossfern]

121. ... and so we advocate withholding support

thus allowing Collins to keep her seat.
There is no purity in politics. I wish people would understand that.

Unfortunately I don't live in Maine, so I will not be able to vote for him.

[EX500rider]

126. I didn't advocate anything I just think he has a lot of red flags in my opinion

[Mossfern]

127. What does bringing up "red flags" mean then?

I just don't get it.
To me, that means that one should withhold support.
If it means something else, please explain.

Do you think that Platner is a Nazi?
Other than the tattoo, what would make you think that way.

Would you have withheld support support of Bill Clinton because of the Monica Lewinsky scandal?

[marble falls]

160. And Collins doesn't????? That's the choice.

[EX500rider]

167. It's means I wish Maine had found someone with less baggage to run.

If this is what has come out before the general election I hope there is no more.
I don't think he is a nazi but it sounds like he knew what the tattoo was and then lied & said he didn't. Not a good look IMO, ymmv

[Envirogal]

108. The point is winning against actual fascists.

Our holier than thou approach is why the right wing has more power than we do. The perfect has become the enemy of the good and us only playing by outdated rules is more dangerous than the actual nazi fans we are trying to defeat.

I don’t care if he has a nazi or a Calvin pissing tattoo at this point.

There were a lot of really bad men in the past history that are heroes because they actually did the right thing for the American people. That is all our focus should be.

[EdmondDantes_]

68. The fact that Franken defenders still diminish what he did is wrong

Franken didn't just take an incredibly creepy picture. Tweeden and 7 other women accused him of inappropriate touching. If you want to justify thinking he shouldn't have resigned, at least be honest about what he was accused of.

https://time.com/5042931/al-franken-accusers/

[iemanja]

98. They are the party of white supremacy

So you’ve decided that’s just fine for Democrats too? Gas chambers aren’t a purity test. 6 million Jews died under that symbol.

[-misanthroptimist]

4. Simple

It's not a Nazi symbol. It's a symbol used by some Nazis.

There is a meaningful difference.

Doesn't matter, anyway. He's going to be the nominee and he's going to win in November.

And that's a good thing.

[sarisataka]

12. The same can be said for the swastika

So is that just another symbol as well?

[-misanthroptimist]

39. No it wouldn't be the same...

...and you know it. So just stop.

[sarisataka]

43. What is the difference?

Although TBF the SS lightning runes are a more direct comparison but all three (swastika, SS runes, Totenkopf) were notoriously used by the Nazis.
What makes one, or more, of them not Nazi symbols?

[-misanthroptimist]

45. Look, until this nonsense...

...I had no idea what a "Totkopf" was. I'm willing to wager a large amount of money that that was the case for a huge majority of Americans.

The swastika is recognized universally as a symbol for Nazis.

Really, just stop.

[sarisataka]

51. I recognized it immediately

Whether or not "many Americans" do not recognize it, and I can say with equal proof the huge majority of Americans do recognize it, its history is undeniable.

What can people not say "I learned something and believe a person made a mistake from ignorance' without trying to rewrite history>

[-misanthroptimist]

58. You can say anything you want

You're the one asserting that Platner knew it was "a Nazi symbol." The evidence you are offering is that *you* knew it was "a Nazi symbol." That would be relevant if you had gotten the tattoo. So, you need to offer some verifiable evidence that Platner knew it "a Nazi symbol" at the time he got the tattoo. Otherwise, you simply are making an unfounded and meaningless accusation.

So just stop, unless you can provide such verifiable evidence...which you can't.

[sarisataka]

60. Incorrect

You're the one asserting that Platner knew it was "a Nazi symbol."

I explicitly did not make that assertation.

I am not talking about a drunk person getting a tattoo that had a meaning they were unaware of.

I am talking about the symbol *as used by the Nazis* and people denying that fact.

[-misanthroptimist]

66. If you are not making that assertion...

...then the tattoo is irrelevant entirely. You're just wasting your time and the time of everyone reading this. So...

...just stop.

[sarisataka]

69. Stop opposing Nazism and historical revisionism?

Sorry I will never stop that.

I posed my question and what it was not about very clearly.

[-misanthroptimist]

73. Very clearly illogical

I have amply demonstrated that the tattoo is a non-issue at this point. So, you have a nice day!

[sarisataka]

76. The question was never about the tattoo

Enjoy your day.

[-misanthroptimist]

87. Then, as I said, the tattoo is irrelevant.

So, what's your point -that drunk young men make poor decisions? I hate to break it to you, but that's pretty widely known. But that, too, is irrelevant since Platner is no longer young and appears to be reasonably sober.

[sarisataka]

92. Let me phrase this clearly- since it doesn't matter if I type slowly

I was never asking about the tattoo.
I was asking about the Nazi symbol.

If you read the entire OP, and not add any words I did not say, you will see that was always my point.

[-misanthroptimist]

104. Stop dodging

The only reason you care is about the tattoo. Attempting to cast it as people defending Naziism or its symbols is both disingenuous and ineffective. No one is defending Nazis or their symbols. They are defending Platner -full stop.

[sarisataka]

109. You refuse to accept what I have stated

simply, clearly and honestly. You keep adding words and motives I do not have.
There is no point to continuing an exchange when someone is not acting in good faith.

Go back to enjoying your day.

[-misanthroptimist]

137. Nonsense

Your OP is disingenuous nonsense. You cannot show me one person "defending Nazi symbols"...probably on this site. Certainly, there are none in this thread.

Your OP is a smear against Platner and those who support him, your rationalizations notwithstanding.

[Americanme]

140. I never heard of a totenkopf until this story, either.

But I do know the swastika is a hate symbol. Skulls are everywhere. I have band T-shirts with evil looking skulls on them. Excuse me for not being an expert on nazi skulls. Anybody that spends time in tattoo shops knows that design sheets are grouped by theme. Page after page of assorted skulls. They are not labeled, like this one is a pirate skull, this one is a nazi skull. Just flash sheets with a lot of skulls. And not every tattoo has a deep meaning, or expresses a belief. Sometimes you are there just for the experience of getting tattooed. Sometimes it's a bonding moment among friends. I can't believe how people are trying to force meaning onto this.

[-misanthroptimist]

141. Couldn't agree more

These unfair, and frankly pathetic, smears should be beneath us.

[Jack Valentino]

165. I'd be willing to bet a fairly large amount of money that the tattoo shop catalog where he bought it

didn't have it labeled as the "Nazi Totenkopf"!!!! Just another in a collection of skull and bones which a young man thought 'looked cool'.

The Swastika is more universally recognized as a 'Nazi symbol'--- the others much less so--
unless you spent a lot of time studying Nazi uniforms.... which I never had a good reason to do.

Hell, I consider myself a pretty good layman historian on World War II,
I know all about the Holocaust and the SS and the death camps,
but I mostly read--- perhaps I didn't spend enough time viewing Nazi uniforms,
or read books that had enough pictures in them of their uniforms--
because when this whole controversy first arose, I didn't recognize it for any kind of
symbol used by the Nazis , EITHER--- and I'm sure a young drunk Marine didn't.

If he learned what it meant before he admits, well, so the fuck what!
Getting a tattoo removed is no small thing,
neither is getting it covered up---which he DID when the matter came publicly to light---

If he learned about it earlier, perhaps he intended to do something about it,
but didn't get around to it until recently--- since it didn't show to anyone
who didn't see him with his shirt off!

I suspect people who keep going on and on about it have impure motives---
especially on the Republican side, of course---

and among Democrats, possibly some of those are really more concerned
about the fact that he was endorsed by Bernie Sanders!


If Platner was really a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer,
or a Nazi-Republican with little to choose between them--
he would have "doubled-down" and kept the tattoo---
but as a matter of fact it no longer exists!


But yes, the exact rendition WAS a Nazi symbol, one of many. I don't think anyone here is making some attempt to rehabilitate it.

[sarisataka]

169. I would bet you are correct

and thank you- it is a Nazi symbol

[Behind the Aegis]

47. Speak and so it shall be so.

Kinda makes the other response...well...stupid.

[Initech]

5. Because Fox News wants control of the senate.

And they don't care who they stomp on to get it.

[RockRaven]

6. Care to share examples of the behavior in question?

If there has been "so much effort" there must be specific examples at hand. Then the conversation can be concrete instead of abstract. And the people who have done so can even take opportunity to speak for themselves.

[sarisataka]

13. Post number 4 is one example

denying it is a Nazi symbol. Virtually every thread about Platner is full of excuses and denials.

I reiterate- I am not asking about his tattoo, I am asking about the symbol; if the SS Totenkopf is not a Nazi symbol, are the paired lightning bolts also not a Nazi symbol? Is a swastika just a good luck symbol with a footnote?

[RandomNumbers]

7. Why is so little effort being spent promoting other D candidates in the upcoming primary?

https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Maine,_2026

It seems there is a very high likelihood that we will be stuck with the guy who got a horrible tattoo, allegedly during a drunk episode while serving in the military. Maybe if more people knew how great the other candidates are, this would not happen.

I don't think you will convince many people that getting a stupid tattoo during military service is a disqualifier.

n.b. I am not a Maine resident or voter; if I were, I would rank Platner last or not at all. But if he wins I would have no qualms about promoting him as a better Senator for Maine than the current Trump doormat.

Costello seems like a good candidate, but he received no publicity or money.

https://ballotpedia.org/David_Costello

Instead of publicly trashing the guy who has the big D money behind him, I'd be interested in why Sanders, Warren, and Gallego endorsed Platner despite all these issues. Did they not research him? Or do they think Costello worse? What about LaFlamme?

[LisaL]

9. Why did Sanders endorse Fetterman?

Maybe he isn't the best judge of character?

[RandomNumbers]

15. True, but what about Warren?

I forget, did she endorse Fetterman too? (serious question and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment)

OTOH, ** TO ME ** Fetterman had much smaller red flags at the time he ran. Not sure if it was the stroke or if he really was a fraud all along, or if he is being extorted/blackmailed/leveraged (whatever the correct term is) due to his wife's immigration status. No doubt he's turned out badly for us. But he is still a helluva lot better than having Oz in his place.

All of which emphasizes to focus on the other primary choices - but be prepared to support the D who wins the primary, even if they are considerably less than perfect. Getting control of the Senate gavel is the most important issue on the ballot in November.

[LisaL]

21. We actually had a very good democratic alternative to Fetterman in a primary.

Who would have been a whole lot better than Fetterman.

[Danmel]

18. Because Nazis killed Jews

Noone would explain away a noose or confederate flag.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

24. They might for Platner

[sarisataka]

34. That would be interesting to see what would happen

if a Democratic candidate had the Virgina battle flag tattooed on his chest. I seriously doubt the argument would be "it's not a Confederate symbol" (Let's hope we never have to find out)

It is noteworthy that the concentration camp guards wore the Totenkopf on their collar tab instead of the usual SS runes.
I do not think Jews have forgotten the symbol.

[ABC123Easy]

19. Poor Sarisataka

I received around 100 nasty, attacking replies by arguing a similar point yesterday.

All I did was post the NY Times article and say that I draw the line at Nazi tattoos and the attacks, accusations, and threats just flowed in.

I wish you good luck.

[sarisataka]

22. I saw that but

I don't learn from other's mistakes

[ABC123Easy]

25. Good for you!

Best wishes!

[sarisataka]

149. I showed this thread to my children

And they gave me a term I never heard before:

Weaponized Ignorance

I feel your pain.

[betsuni]

168. Weaponized ignorance -- excellent term.

[questionseverything]

29. It was an opinion piece not an article, an article implies facts

[ABC123Easy]

36. Really? As one of the less hostile repliers from yesterday.....

.......That was an article, most definitely NOT an opinion piece.

Not sure why you would even try that. I'm not doing this with you today. You and I ended on an agreement yesterday, so please let it be.

[Shellback Squid]

38. I saw so many swatikas in India, they must all be Nazi's too

[sarisataka]

44. Does that make swastikas acceptable everywhere

If you see a white man sporting a swastika pendant is your first thought, 'he must be into Indian culture'?

[mike_c]

40. the German SS was only one of many meanings...

...symbolized by a skull and bones. It has had thousands of associations throughout human history. I don't get upset about it unless the Nazi intent is clear and unambiguous.

[sarisataka]

46. Will you say the same of other Nazi symbols

e.g. swastikas or the paired lightning runes?

[calimary]

118. As an art student, I saw many designs through history that included the swastika.

It’s just when humans get ahold of it and add new “meanings” that are evil. One of the best examples is from Germany during WW2, when it came to symbolize the worst evil imaginable.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

50. K&R

[Bluestocking]

52. I think we need to look at intent

The swastika is clearly the symbol of the Nazi’s. Everyone knows that. It is universal. The tottenkopf is not. Most people do not even know about the association between it and Nazi’s. I didn’t until the Platner controversy. If I were to get a skull and cross bones tattoo I might select the tottenkopf not realizing the association. Not only that but Platner has had it removed now that he knows. We need to give Platner the benefit of the doubt. There is too much at stake.

Once he wins the nomination we all need to get behind him or at least don’t criticize him. Once he wins in November you can say whatever you want.

[TexLaProgressive]

54. The skull and crossed femurs has a long history

I t was appropriated by the NAZIs but it has meaning more than that association.

I remember friends of my Dad, WW II veterans who fought the Fascists with that tattoo. That doesn't make them NAZIs.

I really don't give a f*ck about anybody's ink.

If you care, this link gives some history of the image.

https://www.mysafetysign.com/poison-symbol-history?srsltid=AfmBOoqW3k3_nUtK9wXwqa5c4R5L1VdsG3N2ckR8070Hi5x3WaBf6FjR

[RetiredParatrooper]

55. No one is trying to 'rehabilitate' the Nazis

They are calling people out for purity drivel.

Was this guy a Nazi?:



SkUlL aND cROsSboNeS!!!!!11111

iRoN cRoSeS!!!!!!111111

[LAS14]

70. Who is that guy? nt

[sarisataka]

75. Since the photo of von Mackensen

pre-dates both WW2 and Nazism, it would be ludicrous to claim that he was a Nazi.

Would one claim the Mitchell corn palace was pro-Nazi because they had a swastika on the building in 1907?

[Kaleva]

56. The rules of DU require that we support Platner if he's the nominee

If the voters of Maine make him the nominee, then we support him in open discussions. I don’t have an opinion on the subject as my opinion is irrelevant.

[sarisataka]

67. And at no point have I stated

people should not support Platner.

I was explicit that I was not asking specifically about any tattoo but about the denials of a symbol's Nazi history.

[Kaleva]

161. I haven't paid much attention to the debate about the tattoo

I’ve skipped over most threads about Platner and only read your OP because you had wrote it and I find your posts interesting.

So as I’m quite ignorant about this topic, I’m just going to see myself out.

[sarisataka]

163. Fair enough

Have a pleasant evening

[Kaleva]

164. Same to you!

[niyad]

155. At this moment, he is the PRESUMPTIVE nominee. Their primary

is June 9.

[Kaleva]

162. True

[RandySF]

57. One needs only to look at other political figures to answer that.

[pat_k]

59. No one is defending the symbol, including platner.

If truly vile people like Derek Black, Christian Picciolini, Arno Michaelis can transform and become leaders in the anti-racist, non-violent movement, I have no problem giving a man who is VERY effectively advocating for progressive values, who has previously said and done bad things that he now regrets, the benefit of the doubt.

[sarisataka]

63. Post above your show that statement is false

People are defending the symbol

[pat_k]

97. I see no one defending the symbol.

I see people standing up for a candidate who got the Nazi symbol tattoo 18 years ago and had it transformed into a Celtic knot in Oct last year.

I see people standing up for a man for whom Nazi "values" are abhorrent.

I see people standing up for a candidate who has proven himself to be a very effective advocate for progressive values.

I see people standing up for a candidate that was recruited by unions for good reason -- he is a good candidate.

I see people making the case that if he is our democratic nominee, however flawed one may think him. Even a problematic D that enormously increases our our chances of becoming the majority in the Senate needs our full-throated support because the consequences of continued Republican leadership are monumentally more dire than the consequences of having someone who could perhaps turn out to be involved in ongoing scandalous behavior. (An outcome I don't think is likely but what do I know?)

People who realize many don't recognize the symbol for what it is are pointing out that that fact makes Platner's assertion that he is one of the people who did not recognize the symbol for what it was very believable. That is NOT a defense of the Nazi symbol itself.

Fortunately, human beings have the capacity to learn and grow. The countless examples of former hate group members (who did FAR, FAR worse things) who have become incredibly effective advocates against racism and hate proves that.

People who continue to believe in this man -- and I am one of them -- are making judgments based on what they see in him NOW. The unions that recruited him are frustrated with the distractions, but they are sticking by him. Their judgment in that bolsters my own.

[sarisataka]

103. And I was never asking about any man

I was asking about a symbol which has been explicitly said "is not a Nazi symbol" and using ignorance to deny Nazi connections (which I also addressed in the OP, a tattoo may be chosen out of ignorance, but that ignorance does not mean the symbol has no meaning)

[pat_k]

114. I see no posts that say that. You have to give me verbatim quotes (in context) that you read that way.

[sarisataka]

117. Post 4

It's not a Nazi symbol. It's a symbol used by some Nazis.

Post 40

the German SS was only one of many meanings...
...symbolized by a skull and bones.

Post 54

The skull and crossed femurs has a long history
I t was appropriated by the NAZIs but it has meaning more than that association.

These are in relating to the specific style of skull and crossbones as used by the SS. Note the irony of the posts which admit it was used by Nazis.

[LAS14]

61. Who's defending it? Nt

[sarisataka]

65. Have you read the replies

One early reply:

It's not a Nazi symbol.

[LAS14]

72. I searched for it and found it in #4, which you referenced...

... in another post. It was a reply to your post, so hardly qualifies as one of the posts "spending so much effort defending" that you reference in your OP.

[sarisataka]

78. There are many others in this thread

In the one you posted yesterday and, in many others, denying/diminishing the Nazi connection of that particular design.

You can choose to ignore it if you wish but it does not change reality.

[LAS14]

119. I have never denied or diminished the connection. I have simply wondered...

... what it was that made it so recognizable to people not familiar with such things. The connection is there. I'm not denying or diminishing it. I'm just saying that there's nothing about it that makes the connection obvious, visually. To many (most?) people, it just looks like a skull and crossbones. I'm not denying the fact of the connection, just the perception of what it is.

As far as I can tell, that's what most people, who aren't claiming that it's an obvious connection, are saying.

[sarisataka]

132. I haven't said you have denied its meaning.

You asked a question, which I assume was in good faith, why do so many recognize it as a Nazi symbol. There is nothing wrong or shameful out ignorance of any symbols meaning. I can even understand many people being unaware of its Nazi connection.

The problem is when the connection is explained and we have some who flat out refuse to accept the connection of the Totenkopf with the Nazis. The SS was not military personnel se, they were an armed branch of the Nazi party.

[LAS14]

152. OK. nt

[buzzycrumbhunger]

133. Just sayin'...

Pirates are big in Florida. We have festivals and parades for them. I have to admit that when I saw this symbol, my immediate thought was it was a variation on the skull and crossbones. *shrug*

[CivicGrief]

71. Think about this.

Which Democratic candidate has the best shot of unseating the incumbent Senator who is actively enabling actual fascists in the US today (no symbolism there)? Hint: Platner is +5 (at least) in every poll, and Mills is a statistical tie or worse. Do you think Platner is a wolf in sheep's clothing and will vote like Collins?

[sarisataka]

80. That was not my question, as I clearly stated

it is about the defense/denial of a Nazi symbol.

[CivicGrief]

82. The question is not in a vacuum. It is in relation to Platner.

I don't see most people here defending nazi symbolism. They are defending the mistake of a candidate. If you think Platner is a nazi, just say so.

[sarisataka]

86. Never said that, never implied that

and if you read other replies there are ones defending the SS Totenkopf as having no particular Nazi connotation.

[Pris]

113. Platner was a sexist choice

They fawned over a man with no experience and the woman running was the true liberal progressive women's rights and gay rights candidate.

But she "wasn't good enough."

Now we might get Collins again.

[Grim Chieftain]

74. The symbol or offensive tattoo can be fairly easily removed

Like Hegseth, if the person continues to have the tattoo, it's a choice.

[WestMichRad]

110. Yes, exactly.

[Sympthsical]

83. Yeah, it's gotten cringingly weird now

"Maybe he didn't know better as a drunken youth." - reasonable explanation, live and learn.

"And really, are Nazi symbols all that bad if I personally had no idea it was a Nazi symbol?" - oh no, you've driven the thinking car off the cliff.

I find the first reasonable enough. The people who couldn't leave it there and started in on that second train of thought are wilding.

[TVguyCards]

84. Come on folks

Let's not make excuses for the Nazi Death Head. Some of the replies I'm seeing are very disheartening. It's a horrible symbol with a history deeply entrenched in Nazi history. Let us please not try and parse this with "but it's history before Nazis!" which is an argument used by the same morons the Blue Brothers ran off a bridge in Illinois. That is just pure cringe to even hear that argument made on here of all places 😬

Now I'd like to believe that the tell tale story of the ticker tape comes down to "Has Germany banned the Nazi Death Head?" and the answer to that question is a solid YES it has and it's been illegal for some time now at that. The SS-Totenkopf falls under paragraph Section 86a of the German Criminal Code (StGB), it is a criminal offence to publicly display, wear, manufacture, or disseminate symbols of unconstitutional or banned organizations.

Look, I realize this is a very hot button issue right now. We have to lock in and focus. We have fascists and their enablers to beat. I firmly believe Platner is so popular because of the policies he supports which the other candidates don't. We're in a dire situation right now in this country where many people are being harmed and the subject of violence. My gosh there's a thread on here about a lady calling in to CSPAN saying she's slowly starving to death because she's had her SNAP benefits cut so much. That's one example of a million right now.

For some perspective - It's a disgusting symbol, no question about it. You know what else is really disgusting? People running for office who can't even support single payer healthcare or don't support giving those people who are on SSDI living wages. It's literally legal to pay them pennies on the hour. I'd love to see the same energy Platner is being given to those others who's policies are literally killing people.

[sarisataka]

89. You get it /nt

[MineralMan]

90. Enough!

Fuck this shit!

[orangecrush]

94. The tattoo behind all of this

[sarisataka]

95. I will not stop opposing or rehabilitating Nazis, their legacy and symbols.

As I have tried to state clearly so many times:

This is not about any candidate- it is about denying a Nazi symbol is a Nazi symbol

[MineralMan]

99. Nobody has done that.

Say welcome to Susan Collins in her next term.

Fuck that shit, too.

Bye.

[sarisataka]

105. They have, in this thread

I do not support Collins and resent the implication that I favor any Republican. I have not indicated at any point people should not vote for the Democratic candidate.

You may retract that slander you have made as a show of character if you choose.

[AloeVera]

153. MM is right.

It doesn't matter how many times you claim this isn't about Platner and his tattoo, it still won't ring true to a lot of people.

The timing is terrible. Platner can beat Collins but not if he's done in by attacks even from his own party, including the "Tottenkopf is a Nazi symbol" crowd.

There are DUers calling Platner a Nazi. I care more about that than I do about whether people correctly view the Tottenkopf.

As MM said, be prepared to "welcome" Susan Collins - because that's where all the attacks on Platner are leading - including and especially the Nazi smears and those arose directly from the focus on the Tottenkopf.

It really is enough. Collins is closing in.

[sarisataka]

156. I have not seen Platner called a Nazi but I have no reason to doubt it. I haven't followed every thread.

I have never made the accusation so myself. If I believed he had Nazi sympathies, I would be much louder.

He has some troubling baggage but once he became the presumptive candidate, I have not questioned him. Defeating Collins is a more important first step.

I have no issue with anyone who says he made a mistake out of ignorance, and it is true he has covered it up.

My issue is many go beyond that and are defending the symbol itself, denying it has a Nazi meaning. I would do the same for a swastika, runic lightning bolts or even a stylized Reichsadler concealing the swastika.

That is my motivation. If people assume there is more that is on them.

[Mossfern]

154. Rec'd

A gazillion times. This has become Swiftian, as absurd as the arguments between Big Endians and Little Endians.

[Uncle Joe]

93. I'm more curious as to how someone can defend an ongoing genocide, and endless wars instead of a tattoo; which

resembles something everyone walks around within themselves?

[sarisataka]

101. Which genocide

Following is a list of the current genocides, their location, the approximate year they began, and the death toll estimates.

-Tibet, 1953-present: 400,000-1.2 million+ Tibetans killed under the occupation of the People’s Republic of China.
It was the People’s Liberation Army of China which invaded in the 1950s and began the killings, deportations, cultural and religious suppression, and military occupation. The Chinese communist government has committed many acts of genocide, intentional famine, and ethnic cleansing over the last eight decades. Do not be fooled by their military’s name, the People’s Liberation Army, they are a communist country and use the military and the state to commit genocides and massacres.
-Sri Lanka, 1956-present: 154,000-253,818+ Tamils killed. The UN and US have been called complicit in this genocide, which had particularly violent years during their civil war which began in 1983.
-North Korean prison camps, 1959-present: Unknown thousands, perhaps millions, have passed through the vast network of prison and “reeducation” camps, with an unknown number of deaths.
Conditions are so deplorable that an estimated 40% of prisoners die of malnutrition/starvation, and unknown thousands die at the hands of the guards. As of 2019, an estimated 80,000-200,000 prisoners were imprisoned in the camp network.
-Papua New Guinea, 1962-present: 100,000-500,000 killed.
-Colombia, 1964-present: 220,000-800,000 killed and at least 7 million displaced.
-Hmong people in Southeast Asia, 1975-present: 100,000-300,000 Hmong and other minorities killed.
-Tigray, Ethiopia, 1990-present: 2-6 million people are “missing” and over 2 million are displaced.
A discrepancy of 4 million people is quite large, one might question the validity of estimates like this. There are many things preventing accurate death tolls and missing tolls, but most importantly is that the crisis is not over so proper investigations cannot be completed so information is often reported by the citizens. Most often, the people committing the genocide will underestimate the deaths or disappearances, and sometimes those suffering will inflate the numbers. Sometimes people have no birth records, often there are no death records, some people could escape and disappear themselves, and many are likely dead but there is no evidence, so they become part of the “missing” statistic.
-Afghanistan, 1996-present: An unknown amount of ethnic minorities, especially the Hazara people, killed in dozens of massacres, including the Mazar-i-Sharif massacre, when 2,000-20,000 people were killed.
In rural and impoverished areas such as in Afghanistan, people often cannot get birth certificates for their babies, thus making it harder to determine an accurate census and death toll for massacres. A study done in 2017 found that only 42% of Afghan children over age five had a birth certificate, and prior to the 21st century most adults would not have had one. Therefore, when the Taliban or ISIS/ISIL massacres a secluded village, killing undocumented people, and burning the evidence, those people did not have a birth record or a death record, and nobody was able to investigate. Victims are killed and buried in mass graves, drowned, or buried in wells, and these crimes are not often investigated by outside agencies.
-Democratic Republic of the Congo, early 2000s-present, an unknown number of deaths (they are not often counted) due to “artisanal mining” in slave-like conditions, and over 5.5 million people are displaced.
Some do not consider the crisis to be a genocide because it is forced labor, child labor, and human trafficking. And the history of slavery, generally, is not often thought of as a genocide, but slavery is in fact genocide. What is happening to the Congolese is a genocide if one only considers part of the definition from Article II of the Convention, “Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group,” and, “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part,” regardless of mass killings or not.
-Darfur, Sudan, 2003-present: 98,000-500,000 killed and at least 10.7 million people are displaced.
-Libya, 2011-present: 15,000-30,000 killed in 2011 alone, hundreds more are killed each year, however there is strong media censorship in Libya.
-Mali, 2012-present; 10,800+ killed and over 5 million displaced.
-Syria, 2013-present; 116,000+ killed and over 11 million displaced.
--Yemen, 2014-present; 233,000+ killed and 4.5 million displaced.
-China, 2014-present; at least 2 million ethnic minorities (primarily the Uyghur ethnic group) have been detained in “re-education camps” with an unknown death toll.
-Burkina Faso, 2016-present; 1,850+ killed and at least 1 million displaced.
-Cameroon, 2016-present; 6,000+ killed and 600,000+ displaced.
-Myanmar, 2016-present; 25,000-43,000+ killed and over 1 million displaced.
-Ukraine, 2022-present; 10,000+ killed, over 12 million displaced, and between 900,000 and 1.6 million people forcibly deported to Russia, including unaccompanied abducted children.
The Former Soviet Union has a long history of forcibly displacing and relocating civilians, and those who support the Soviet brand of communism will deny this as well as the current genocide of Ukrainians. Forced deportations and removing children from families is part of the definition of genocide, as well.
-Gaza (occupied Palestine), 2023-present; 41,788+ killed, 21,000+ missing, and 2 million displaced.
Estimates of deaths rise up to 180,000+ based on historical data of genocides and a lack of data from the Gaza health ministry which collapsed a few months into the genocide.

Note: All of these death tolls are as of September 2024.

https://truthlytics.com/20-ongoing-genocides-you-should-know-about/

All of them are worthy of OPs

[Uncle Joe]

102. Any genocide, but particularly ones that our government, and our tax dollars are supporting. n/t

[CivicGrief]

143. Are we allowed to condemn the perpetrators of all the genocides?

Or just most?

[AloeVera]

157. Probably not the ones defended here daily for nearly 2 years.

You know, Tibet. Sri Lanka. North Korea etc.

Stop at Gaza though, no one defended that here.

[iemanja]

100. Intellectual and moral integrity

Is sadly uncommon.

[demmiblue]

106. +1

[LymphocyteLover]

107. who is defending that symbol???

[sarisataka]

111. Again- read the replies

it has been denied it is a Nazi symbol.

Some are denying because they were unaware of the Nazi connection, some are denying because others have used similar symbols and some just deny it has any Nazi connotation.

[Bluetus]

112. Bullshit. This was not a "Nazi symbol" per se

Last edited Sat Jun 6, 2026, 06:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Evidently, three were some units within the Nazi regime that used this symbol. I bet not 1 in 1000 people at this forum knew about that before this fake outrage campaign started. I certainly did not. And I have no reason to believe that Platner knew the history of this particular symbol. Tattoo artists are not exactly famous for their mastery of obscure German history.

We can't know to a certainly what was in Platner's head. I am inclined to believe him because, if not for a deep phobia of needles, I might have gotten that same tattoo.

On the other hand, we know for a certainty that Collins has supported our Trump neo-Nazi regime every step of the way. Has she ever cast a single vote against the SS (aka ICE). Has she ever even visited any of the concentration camps that our Nazis are building right now all over the country?

How ironic that people want to have a debate about some obscure bit of artwork, which Platner has repudiated, while saying nothing about the real Nazi actions taking place right in front of our eyes.

[sarisataka]

115. The particular symbol

of the image I posted was a little more than "some units"; it was the symbol of the entire Schutzstaffel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniforms_and_insignia_of_the_Schutzstaffel

That fact that many are unaware of the meaning of the symbol is an indictment of how history is taught.

I have clearly said it is not about Platner but about the denial of the symbol being used by the Nazis even when presented with the evidence it was used by Nazis.

[Bluetus]

135. Be honest. When did you learn about this symbol?

Again, I bet fewer than 1 in 1000 people AT THIS ERUDITE FORUM knew about that artwork before the smear campaign started.

And if you did know about it, that doesn't mean that you are smarter than the next person (you might be or you might not be). It means you have an unusually strong interest in German history. Don't condemn the rest of us whose interests lie elsewhere and don't judge everyone else who has different areas of interest than you claim to have.

I did not serve in the military, but I doubt that it is uncommon for young guys, who are stuffed full of warrior rage, to go out and get a menacing tattoo without doing a bunch of research first.

[sarisataka]

139. 6th grade

Mid seventies, the years the miniseries The Holocaust came out. We watched it as homework and discussed it at length in school.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

123. The totenkopf tattoo is a NAZI symbol

[Bluetus]

138. Nice. So if I have a T-shirt that has an arrow pointing upward, you will call me a Nazi?

[Buzz cook]

120. I have yet to see anyone defend the symbol

The defense is that Plattner was to stupid, drunk, or privileged to recognize it as a Nazi symbol.
That is the testimony of the man who got a matching tattoo at the same time and place Plattner got his.

[sarisataka]

130. Read the thread

I have said it it not about any tattoo but about the symbol used by the SS.

People are defending the symbol.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

124. This tattoo really bothers me

I have seen a great deal on this. This is just one example that Collins would use against Platner in a general election campaign.

Link to tweet

I have seen some other oppo that pesters me including the material on this thread.

[Jack Valentino]

166. Would a Democratically-controlled US Senate bother you, if Platner

was the deciding vote??


I think that is the most important thing here,
certainly not what tattoos may have formerly existed on a Democratic candidate's body,
but which no longer exist there....

[Hassin Bin Sober]

136. Before this I had now idea what a totenkopf was.

I’ve read several books on the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. I’ve watched every documentary there is.

I swear to god I didn’t know what a totenkopf was. I thought the “death’s head squads” and the SS had just a skull (death’s head).

I just never paid that much attention to the symbols because they weren’t important to the subject matter.

I’ve had a Grateful Dead sticker or emblem on the back of my car since the 1980s. Currently I have a Steal Your Face skull on the back of my car(s). I know for sure I’ve had a Dead Reckoning skull and cross bones on at least a couple cars.

[struggle4progress]

142. He had the tattoo covered many months ago. Collins is still voting to fund the GESTAPO

[-misanthroptimist]

146. That there is the correct perspective

[luv2fly]

144. Why is so much effort being spent trying to destroy a Democrat on this forum? n/t

[-misanthroptimist]

145. I hesitate to guess

But on the bright side, the effort appears to be a miserable failure.

[sarisataka]

147. That would be against the SOP

You should consider alerting on such a post.

[Polybius]

148. Graham Platner reminds me a lot of Adam Kokesh

Striking parallels.

[Eko]

158. Maybe its just an awkward tattoo just like Musk's hitler salute was a awkward gesture per the ADL?

[sarisataka]

170. The only thing awkward about Musk's gesture

was that it was a Nazi salute. The debate over was/wasn't, IMO was ridiculous

[Eko]

171. I agree.

Not sure why they called it an awkward gesture.

[Intractable]

159. Being offended is a choice.

You can laugh at the fool pathetically trying to offend you.

Or, you can be the fool's fool and play into it. That's what I think of this OP.

Support Democrats or f*ck off.