She Won. They Didn't Just Change the Machines. They Rewired the Election.

[Botany]

Last edited Thu Jun 19, 2025, 09:36 AM - Edit history (1)

Edit: She won part 2. Conservatives rigged the courts too. https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220412804


The election never passed my smell test. Now if this information is correct that Peter Thiel’s
Palantir had the capacity to hide flipped or deleted votes then all the post election memes about
Harris/Walz were “off message” or “they just didn’t get voters excited enough to turn out to vote”
could be pushed. You know that the blue voters just didn’t turn out and stayed home meme.

I have always wondered where all those pro choice and pro women’s vote that had
always been there post overturning Roe v Wade went to? Something like 70% of Americans
support a woman’s right to choose and in almost every election in every state* after the over-
turning of Roe Pro Choice won.

“The Digital Janitor: also known as forensic sanitization, it was now being embedded into Eaton-managed hardware connected directly to voting systems. Palantir didn’t change the votes. It helped ensure you’d never prove it if someone else did.”


* and that held true in the red states of Kansas, Kentucky, and Ohio.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220406022

[musette_sf]

1. Kick

[SheltieLover]

2. Yup they did.

[brush]

29. Not good. No sense in having another presidential election since they've figured out...

how to win them.

[Clouds Passing]

116. They've been stealing and cheating since they lost of the Civil War.

The Knights of the Golden Circle are America’s enemies.

[DENVERPOPS]

149. I think it boils down

to what some Frenchman? said at the time we were first starting our Democracy in the 1700's?????????

He stated that: "a Democracy will work until some one or some group figures out they can vote themselves money."

And wow........did that come true when "Citizens United" came the reality in 2010........THAT was the final nail in the coffin of Democracy....

Citizens United, should have been truly named: Corporations United...........

[BComplex]

123. No!! It's time to fight like hell for fair, UNCHEATABLE, elections. We can do this!

Good word. Uncheatable.

[FarPoint]

37. It feels like the truth is on the way....

We have been aware for a good 6 months!

[mitch96]

58. "The election never passed my smell test."..When the aged tfg said at one of his rally's "no need to vote....

... we have plenty of votes" I thought hummmm the fix is in...
m

[OMGWTF]

119. And Eloon pondering on air how long of a prison sentence he'd get if T💩p didn't win the election.

[ananda]

3. This makes so much sense to me.

I never thought my eyes could deceive me
enough to think she really lost.

[FirstLight]

5. Rude

You didn't have to comment you could have just scrolled past. The evidence is there it's not a conspiracy ... It really pisses me off that people think that DUers indulge in conspiracy crap.

[tritsofme]

6. Sometimes the truth hurts. These ridiculous conspiracy theories are no different from the garbage pushed by MAGA

Four years ago.

[FirstLight]

13. No not really...

You're welcome to think so but I think you're being rude

[tritsofme]

18. That may be true, but it doesn't make these delusional conspiracy theories any more accurate.

[Kingofalldems]

21. Gee, too bad you don't like this discussion.

[tritsofme]

23. I actually kind of enjoy these threads.

They can be entertaining.

[returnee]

155. You're being insulting.

Delusional? Really?
How dare you?
Shame on you!

[dchill]

38. And what is your source that this story is garbage?

[waterwatcher123]

53. Did you read the article and attachments or just pass judgment on it?

The court case in Rockland County, NY will prove one way or another whether someone tampered with the voting process. The article and complaint make a convincing case something is awry. There were precincts with almost a thousand votes for Trump and zero or just a handful of votes for Kamala.

These attempts to alter the results of the election have been going on since at least 2000. One person who supposedly worked in software development claimed through signed affidavits that he helped create voting machine software to redistribute votes on DRE machines. This issue was in addition to the infamous butterfly ballot in Palm Beach County and Republicans masquerading as citizens shutting down the recount in Dade County. The chief justice of the Supreme Court, who issued the unsigned opinion that handed the election to George W. Bush, was also in the midst of authoring a book about a stolen election (Centennial Crisis – The Disputed Election of 1876, by William H. Rehnquist).

Subsequent presidential elections were just as suspect. The 2004 election was riddled with complaints about non-functional machines, ballot shortages and machines that were tampered with just prior to the election. The report by Democratic Congressman John Conyers called "What Went Wrong in Ohio" is a good summary of the election mess in Ohio. The certification of the election was held up temporarily by objections raised by Ohio's congressional delegation. Neither John Kerry nor John Edwards asked for a recount in Ohio even though the election was suspect and they had a huge campaign war chest.

Fast forward to 2012 when Karl Rove had an absolute meltdown live on air when Fox News called the election in Ohio for Barack Obama. The Ohio Secretary of State's website went down midway through the election and then came back on-line with a revised set of results (watched it happen on the Ohio SOS website). The hacker group, Anonymous, claimed they prevented the theft of the 2012 presidential election by blocking a man-in-the-middle set up where election results were edited en-route to the SOS's office (related to Rove's meltdown - no one is sure).

The presidential election in 2016 was just as bad. Robert Muller’s Special counsel report concluded that Russia interfered with the 2016 election in an unprecedented way. Russia got into state tabulators, hacked Hillary's campaign, and operated a bot army and bot farms to amplify negative messages about Hillary. The official response said Russia did not change anything in these state tabulators (was it just to find a weakness for the next election, no one knows?). Added to this mess was the FBI directors ill timed comments, and the psych ops operation by Cambridge Analytica where data was shared with Russia and targeted millions of people by accessing records from Facebook.

The 2020 presidential election was the most secure election in years primarily because it was conducted on paper due to COVID-19. Trump then proceeded to spend the next four years claiming the election was stolen, even going as far as to have the Cyber Ninja's recount votes in Maricopa County, Arizona. Trump inoculated himself from any claims about election theft by this action (not sure if this was the plan). But we know that Elon Musk knew about the results of the 2024 election hours before anyone else (reported on Joe Rogan's show). His son also made some interesting comments in an interview, implying that the public would never find out how the election was won. Elon also put up a series of cellular satellites right before the election without any fanfare. Whether these satellites were used to communicate with the election machines that use a cellular network is anyone's guess. But many of the ES&S voting machines used to count almost 40% of the votes nationally use the cellular network to transmit data, firmware, and software updates.

There is a difference between a conspiracy and a convergence of interests. Real conspiracies require coordination and knowledge between the parties. A convergence of interests would have the same effect, only the parties might operate without the consent or knowledge of the parties (like the Russians did in 2016). The stakes are so large in a presidential election that it is naive to think these agents would not try to influence a presidential election to favor their national or personal interests. I want to know for sure if this happened in 2024 and what we can do to stop it in the midterms or future elections.

[Melon]

163. Just as an aside....Space X has a collaborative contract with T-mobile

They’ve launched many satellites that are upgraded for cellular to allow remote cell service with starlink. It was probably “without fanfare” because it’s routine within their cycle.

[pnwmom]

137. Some of the anomalies have been pointed out by a group of statistics professors.

I don't remember any MAGA conspiracies backed up by experts.

[pnwmom]

159. Newsweek is reporting serious problems, not "ridiculous conspiracy theories."

SMART Legislation, the action arm of SMART Elections, a nonpartisan watchdog group, filed the lawsuit over voting discrepancies in Rockland County, New York.

Judge Rachel Tanguay of the New York Supreme Court ruled in open court in May that the allegations were serious enough for discovery to proceed.

https://www.newsweek.com/2024-election-lawsuit-advances-2083391

[TacosUberAlles]

161. Wow I hadn't heard that

Thank you for sharing.

[pnwmom]

162. Thank you. And welcome to DU! nt

[EdmondDantes_]

15. If there's evidence, nobody has presented it

This is supposition without anything to demonstrate the feasibility of the claim.

[questionseverything]

32. Why should American citizens need any "evidence " to count the votes in an open transparent manner?

Shouldn’t that be the norm?

[EdmondDantes_]

49. They were counted in an open and transparent manner

If you're referring to machine counting, that's more accurate, faster, and cheaper than hand counting.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/hand-counting-ballots

"Nearly all election jurisdictions across the country use voting machines to count ballots because they are more accurate, faster, and cheaper than counting all ballots by hand. In fact, all voting machines certified by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission must pass tests requiring them to accurately count at least 10 million votes. Voting machines produce comprehensive records that election officials use to verify results through multiple layers of review. To further ensure accuracy, election officials in most states verify these electronic totals by reviewing some ballots by hand and comparing these results to machine counts."

I assume that's what you mean and not the 2020 style complaints.

[Chemical Bill]

75. By open...

I'm sure you mean counted by proprietary software, that is not released to the public for scrutiny.

[EdmondDantes_]

84. I mean the exact same way in 2020, 2016, 2012, 2008

And while the companies don't release their source code, it is audited by the government. But let me guess, they are in on the conspiracy too right? Not to mention all the Democratic officials in those states and the Harris campaign too. What evidence could convince you that can be provided and why do you not question elections we won if cheating is so simple? Why would Republicans not think to cheat on down ballot races? Trump would benefit from a bigger majority in each chamber. The conspiracy isn't intellectually consistent. The gang who can't shoot straight isn't also the super spy group pulling off mission impossible.

https://www.eac.gov/voting-equipment/certified-voting-systems

[questionseverything]

86. The article the op is discussing tells us many machines were certified w/o inspections even though "patches " were added

[Abnredleg]

129. The certifying agencies have access to the software

We’ve already gone over the certifying process in great deal in other threads.

[Chemical Bill]

148. I'm happy for you that you are so trusting. n/t

[questionseverything]

88. And in 2020 repubs challenged Georgia's results and a hand count was done

They found 1000s of votes that hadn’t been recorded but Biden still clearly won

They complained after the hand count so not the same at all

[WOLFMAN87]

45. Agreed

It's just conspiracy until there is evidence.

[Chemical Bill]

76. A recount would provide the only evidence.

Funny there were no recounts.

[MuirHero]

90. A machine recount proves nothing.

The only way to confirm with 100% certainty that the optical scanning machines were hacked is to do hand recounts of the ballots in a statistically representative sampling of precincts where the machine results appear to be suspect. If the hand recount numbers do not match the machine counts and the hand recounts always yield more votes for Harris, that would be the hard evidence that the machines were tampered with.

[Chemical Bill]

103. Plus...

The optical scanners are connected to a central tabulator that could be the weak link.

[Abnredleg]

132. Almost all states did hand counts during their post-election audits

And found no discrepancies. Risk-limiting Audits, which require random hand counts, are quickly becoming the norm due to concerns about machine tabulation. No state doing a RLA has found any problems.

[Chemical Bill]

146. Sure, here and there.

Nobody hand counted all the ballots as a check.

[Abnredleg]

151. No - Risk Reduction Audits are very thorough

they use a very large sample size, and the sample size usually increases the closer the race is. You don't need to check every ballot if you have a good process, and the processes to select ballots is public and observed by the observers of both parties.

[DENVERPOPS]

7. The month before the election

The Senate Republicans and Trump were all talking like they had already won the election........

And Trump was already saying at his Rallies, "Vote for me this one last time, and you will never need to vote for me again".......

[ificandream]

8. The legit media isn't going to run after these theories like RWers do.

But they will say it louder if suspicious things keep happening. Like this vote counting thing. This is just too odd to forget. Do I think Musk and Trump conspired to fix the election? I'm inclined to say they did. I'm waiting for an enterprising journalist to write something. Woodward-Bernstein 2025, where are you?

[tritsofme]

12. Well, we've already heard from Marc Elias, the foremost authority on Republican election shenanigans

He says there was no fraud that changed the outcome of the election.

[bluestarone]

30. I trust Marc. BUT

I would like for him to comment on THIS. If he continues believing no way, then i continue to support him 100%. He's probably the most trusted authority on this.

[returnee]

156. I have never disagreed with him before...

…or since. Mark is phenomenal in defending voting rights in court. Don’t know about anything else.

[annielion]

118. Those "experts" like Marc Elias do not understand computer voting

Computers do exactly what the program tells them to do. Statisticians are the ones who see that the results have been manipulated through those "vote-counting computers". Both SmartElections.us and ElectionTruthAlliance.org have a great deal of evidence of vote manipulation. The proof of vote manipulation is obtained through comparison of this evidence with some of the actual ballots, which SmartElections is presently doing in Rockland County, New York. My understanding is we can continue to vote on computers if we have forensic audits after each election (this does not involve looking at every ballot).
I strongly recommend everyone look at the SmartElections.us and ElectionTruthAlliance.org websites.

[DENVERPOPS]

25. Two highly respected journalist already have

Greg Palast and Tom Hartman teamed up and have come up with how the are almost positive about how it was done. They outlined it with tons of investigative stuff..........The Dems didn't nothing with it...........It is pretty dam convincing......

Google their names and see if you can find out about it..........It has to do specifically with the swing states being tampered with..........

[DiamondShark]

70. Yep, titled. Trump Lost. Vote Suppression Won.

I'm guessing this is the article you were talking about.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219941725

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219957121

[DENVERPOPS]

78. Not sure,

the article I read, that both of them authored together, dealt with the Mathematical and Statistical probability of Trump getting everyone of the swing state's votes was beyond probability and any reason.............

[DENVERPOPS]

80. Here try this one

Palalst is a highly respected journalist, as is Thom Hartman.............

I recall being really upset that Obama didn't try to clean up the entire election process......including voter suppression which was already going on in many RED states, and the security of voting machines across the entire United States as was PROVEN to be a problem in the 2004 election....
(The president of EIS??? voting machines was saying he guaranteed W was going to win.........And there are still EIS machines being used in several Red states last I checked..........and not only the voting machines, but the machines/software that compiles the vote results from all the election sites.........

I think it was Goebell? in Germany, under Hitler who is quoted as saying: "The votes don't matter, it is WHO COUNTS the votes that matters"

[Botany]

120. Joesph Stalin

“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”

[DENVERPOPS]

144. They way that Trump is already

dumping on his voters, I have to believe that He and the Repubs are content that they have the voter corruption down to a science and will use it to affect the outcome forever more..........and never again need to appeal to his MAGAots to get their votes.......

The Republicans and Trump were most likely mentored by Putin on how he accomplished that in Russia......and how he could help in many ways to sabotage the voting of the Dems in 2016 and 2024.............

[ShazzieB]

27. What we really need is another Mark Felt.

Under the code name Deep Throat, Felt provided crucial inside information about the Watergate cover up to Woodward and Bernstein. Without him, they wouldn't have known there was anything to write about.

Whst we need is another informer like Mark Felt!

[liberalla]

74. When this current admin falls apart (which is happening), we'll have some whistleblowers coming forward!

Yes, we will! I feel certain!

[ShazzieB]

127. I believe you are right!

[Chemical Bill]

77. Does Newsweek count?

2024 Election Results Under Scrutiny as Lawsuit Advances - Newsweek https://share.google/Zb70emcRX9JxASSn3

[Botany]

9. And according to the article Leonard Leo's sale of Tripp Lite to Eaton put Theil (and Musk ?) into ..

… the central tabulators.

Trump, “Musk is good with those vote counting computers.” aka Central Tabulators.

[live love laugh]

47. He said that knowing that the theft is untraceable.

[MuirHero]

93. The theft would be uncovered by a hand recount of the ballots.

That is the beauty of paper ballots. They cannot be altered and they provide a permanent record of the vote totals.

[Tribetime]

10. I figured they lost a bunch of democratic mail in votes

Everybody was saying we were way ahead in the early voting but it didn't show up at the end

[mountain grammy]

11. I haven't wanted to go here because

I know so many people who did vote for him. I watched a video of a guy walking through a Home Depot, everyone he saw he asked trump or Harris and every answer was trump.. that bothered me

Most of my husband's family and a few of mine, all trump. That bothered me.

Both my sons' union workshops mostly for trump. That bothered me.

Of course I knew many who were for Harris. All of my friends, but that's the friends I still have.

I still can't believe he won all the swing states.. that really bothers me!

[bottomofthehill]

101. VP Harris own internal polling never had her winning

If her own polls did not show her winning, why are we shocked. She did not mobilize the same numbers that Joe Biden did. Not young voters, not black voters, not Hispanic voters, not women voters, not union voters, she slid across the board in her internals and on Election Day. Unfortunately and sadly, our country was not ready for a mixed race woman, even sadder, the democratic coalition did not turn out for her in the same numbers it did 4 years earlier. Did voter suppression have something to do with it, yes. Did inflation, yes, did Gaza, yes, did bigotry, yes, did sexism, yes the list goes on. Unfortunately we all know people who chose not to vote and others we were surprised votes for Trump, that’s a yes too. It was maddening, disappointing, frustrating but now we have to find a way forward, learn from our mistakes and move forward.

Looking back and claiming the election was stolen will not help us now.

[spike jones]

14. My post from last year.

November 12, 2024. One thing that could change votes over most of the nation are the voting machines. Many states use machines by the company ES&S. Just a few lines of code could change a percentage of D vote to a R vote, even a woman D vote to a R vote. The machines do not have to be connected to a network if the program in each machine is affected.

This was an issue in the 2000 election, and when the manufacturing company was asked to see how the votes were counted, the company said that it was proprietary information. That company was Diebold, which is now named ES&S. Only a few people at the company would even have to know about it.
And yes, if ES&S and others are not investigated this could be the very reason Trump said “we’re going to fix it so good” the MAGA would not have to ever vote again.
A simple recount is not enough.

[DiamondShark]

67. I've programmed ES&S machines.

It would take a group of bipartisan engineers working together to pull off the change. These machines go through rigorous tests by multiple individuals at the manufacturing and county level to be certified. As well as being pulled from service for any reason. Our county tabulators work tirelessly to ensure the votes are tabulated accurately, both Republican and Democratic employees alike. I find your post personally offensive and an attack on the character of our county workers.

[mountain grammy]

82. I hear that

and, honestly I never thought I would ever question county clerks. They take their jobs seriously. But, right here in Colorado a county clerk is in prison for breaching security. Found guilty by a jury.. she's a trumper through and through.

The newly elected county clerk where I lived until last year refused to answer if she thought the 2020 election was fair.

I think, when your dealing with zealots, all bets are off. County clerks and workers can be corrupted.

[DiamondShark]

68. Also Diebold IP was sold to Dominion after ES&S was accused of being a monopoly.

[Karasu]

16. Glad to see this getting more traction. Everyone needs to read it.

[Crunchy Frog]

17. Why didn't they fight then?

If Trump could fight in 2020 even though he knew damn well he'd lost, why not even a peep from Harris/Walz if they knew the official results were invalid, or didn't match their internal polling?

It doesn't make sense to me that our party would just roll over like that if it was obvious that the election was stolen.

[tritsofme]

22. Exactly. There are really only two options here, that either Harris and her billion dollar campaign were just too stupid

to figure out the election was stolen from them, despite all of these internet geniuses figuring it out instantly.

Or she is complicit in covering up that her own election was stolen.

You would have to be delusional to believe either one, but those are the only two real options for those who have been suckered into this conspiracy theory.

[DENVERPOPS]

26. Hey, the Dems literally rolled over

in the 2000 election, the 2004 election, and probably in the 2016 election.........

[ERW]

55. Dems always roll over when there is suspected election fraud

They rolled over in the 2002 Max Cleland election. They rolled over in the 2004 presidential election. Their reasoning that has been given is, that the Dems don't want the voters to know it is possible to manipulate the votes because they fear people won't vote, and the Dems need a large voter turnout to win.

[Crunchy Frog]

63. If this is the case then we need better quality Dems.

Because the rs are willing to fight to the death to get what they want. In the current environment, a Dem who won't fight is a useless Dem.

I apologize if anyone finds this offensive. Not trying to bash Dems.

[yellow dahlia]

64. Some of us on this forum were jumping up and down after the election,

wondering where the paper ballot hand recounts were.

[Crunchy Frog]

66. I always just assumed that their own internal polling

told them that they lost, so they didn't see any point in fighting or demanding recounts.

[yellow dahlia]

153. I believe the Ann Selzer poll was correct.

But everyone convinced her it must have been wrong...for the first time.

[Abnredleg]

133. The hand counts occurred during the audits

And no discrepancies were found.

[DENVERPOPS]

147. they may have realized,

just as in the 2000 election, that the USSC would interfere with the re-count and stop it. The Dems didn't object to the USSC intervening in a purely "STATE" set of laws when they took control.........Now that they got away with it, the worse part is that now the Republican Supreme Court has a "Legal Precedent" to go to in ANY election and change the possible outcome of the voting.........

In a backhanded sort of thinking, I feared that if Kamala had won the election, the next day or week, we most certainly would have had a Civil War on our hands..............The MAGAots were primed, and J6th would have looked like nothing comparatively.............

Once again, I was seriously disappointed that the entire voting/machines debacle wasn't thoroughly investigated during the 8 years of Obama, esp the first two years when he had the House and the Senate.........If the Repubs had objected, it would have certainly made it obvious that the only reason would have been that they had "something" to protect.......

[Skittles]

83. not a comment on the legitimacy of the election but

the "old guard" Dems seem to roll over for EVERYTHING

or else issue a "sternly worded letter"

it's why I would very much like to see YOUNGER DEMS

[BidenRocks]

19. I think I speak for many here.

We have been reading how chump is going down for over 10 years.
It's everywhere and is missing one little detail.
PROOF!
We all want him dead but this emotional roller-coaster has me worn out mentally
As a retired electronics tech I can appreciate the simplicity of this scheme.
All we need to do is prove it.

We keep clicking out of misguided hope that this is the post that changes our lives.
We post disappointment so we don't stroke out.

[Kingofalldems]

20. Watch out-----here they come!

Kick and rec.

[Joinfortmill]

24. Yes, and let us hope that karma is coming for them all.

[Evolve Dammit]

28. There's your fraud

[rso]

31. Election

Seems awfully hard to believe that with all the formidable three letter Agencies like the NSA and CIA under Biden’s control during the pre and post election period, something like this would not have been caught.

[questionseverything]

36. The vote counting companies say the working mechanisms are proprietary

So no one is allowed to look

[rso]

69. Elections

At the slightest suspicion, the three letter Agencies have the capability to look with or without permission.

[questionseverything]

85. The 3 letter agencies are disappearing people, even citizens so

Even if that was true it doesn’t make it any better

The American people need to be able to oversee the counting process not “trust “ the 3 letter agencies

[rso]

87. Elections

I’m talking about these Agencies under Biden, they were not disappearing people at that time, they were under competent and effective leadership and would have investigated at the slightest suspicion.

[questionseverything]

89. Are these agencies full of super humans that can look into a puter and read it's software?

[rso]

115. Elections

You would be amazed at the technical capabilities of an agency like the NSA for example, they do this type of thing to our adversaries, they are familiar with every trick in the book.

[questionseverything]

125. In a democracy, the people have the right to oversee the counting of our votes

The idea that we should give up that oversight to trust some alphabet agency is ludicrous

[rso]

131. Elections

So now you’ve changed the subject. The claim of this thread is that the felon and his acolytes stole the 2024 Election using very sophisticated technical methods. My point is that that is exceedingly unlikely because the best cyber security agencies in the World were under Biden both pre and post Election, and if there was any untoward activity at all, it would have been detected.

[questionseverything]

145. Actually this sub thread started with you claiming I should trust the alphabet agencies

Elections and hand counting of paper ballots that gives transparency is always the point in these discussions for me

If “ we the people “ are not allowed to count our own votes it’s a sham

[rso]

160. Elections

How would “we the people” counting votes work in actual practice ?

[Abnredleg]

128. The certifying agencies have access to the source code

because you can’t certify if you don’t know how the software works. Agencies and courts view proprietary information all the time- you just have to do in a secure manner.

[questionseverything]

134. That's not what the voting companies or any us agency says

Please provide a link for that claim

[Abnredleg]

138. The Voting System Test Laboratory does a code review

Plus creates the Trusted Build.

It’s all explained here: https://www.eac.gov/sites/default/files/TestingCertification/Testing%20and%20Certification%20Program%20Manual%20Version%203.0%20%282%29.pdf


There are many steps than must be taken for a voting system to be certified by the EAC. One of the most important of these steps is the process of creating a trusted build. But what is the trusted build and why is it required?

Firstly, we should define what a build is. Software is typically written by programmers in a human-readable programming language. This is referred to as source code. This code needs to be transformed into a format that can be executed by a computer, known as machine code. This process of transforming, or compiling, source code into executable machine code is known as a software build.

A trusted build is a build that is performed with several security and verification measures to a such an extent that the executable machine code can confidently be shown to be a faithful and authentic representation of the source code.

Before the trusted build process is started, it is required that an EAC accredited voting system testing laboratory (VSTL) receive the source code from the voting system manufacturer, and perform a review of the code, verifying it’s compliant with all applicable VVSG requirements.

https://www.eac.gov/blogs/what-trusted-build-and-why-it-used

[questionseverything]

142. ...

https://dissentinbloom.substack.com/p/the-machines-were-changed-before

The New York case throws doubt at the certifying agency

It’s hard to discuss anything with you when you haven’t read the material

[Abnredleg]

150. I did read it

it's nothing but vagueness and inuendo - "what if" piled upon 'what if". It ignores all the other security processes, both procedural and technical, that protect the voting process, and it definitely ignores all the audit process that examine the validity of the votes. Almost all of the states listed use paper ballots or machines that produce a paper ballot, and do reduction of risk audits in which a substantial proportion of those ballots are hand counted by bi-partisan observers. Not rerun through machines, but hand counted. You need to explain how massive fraud can occur and go undetected with all these protections in place before I can take any of this seriously.

[eppur_se_muova]

96. Eavesdropping on comms WITHIN the US is generally illegal, without a specific warrant.

Last edited Fri Jun 20, 2025, 03:59 AM - Edit history (1)

CIA and NSA might (and did) learn about actions by foreign actors, many of whom were indicted. But domestic surveillance is outside of their permitted activities.


ETA: Bear in mind this didn't stop the Cheney/Bush administration from doing that wholesale.

[DSandra]

33. Democrats play checkers, Republicans play chess

Democrats have to stop playing just defense and play aggressive multi-point offense to keep the Republicans on the defense, because only when they are forced to be on defense can they not have the resources to fully go on the offensive.

[dchill]

41. Republicans don't play chess.

They steal.

[DSandra]

44. Still, we have to stop just being on defense because defense alone is bound to fail

It's also a position of weakness.

[DSandra]

52. Dems had the option to challenge the ballots before the election was certified. Party leaders refused

Dems keep on going easy on Republicans who are known cheaters. Dems have to lay down the law much more aggressively or will always lose to Republicans.

[meadowlander]

81. Democrats play Chinese checkers. Republicans play Hungry, Hungry Hippos.

[ailsagirl]

34. I never doubted it-- something was off-- WAY off

[dchill]

42. And still is.

[ailsagirl]

61. Does anyone know if...

it could be proven that the election was fixed, that dump would be ousted? I heard someplace that he couldn't because the election results were certified. Is this true??

[chouchou]

35. From what I've researched from the past two weeks, the numbers are way-too-strange.

It's akin to: "A liberal, freedom rights, regarding Abortion, intelligent woman, votes overwhelmingly for the same people in
her local city and states.....and then she votes for Donald Trump"

I could be wrong but my senses are abuzz..

[hamsterjill]

40. I have no idea, but

There is something that has held true for me with everything that Trump does, and that is, that he always accuses the other side of doing what he is actually doing.

The smugness of his telling people he won before he won made me want to puke. I wouldn't trust that bastard to tie my shoe laces.

[Lokee11]

112. Been said before and worth EVERYONE saying again -

EVERY ACCUSATION IS AN ADMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!

✊FDT!

[Abstractartist]

43. Sorry but

Sorry to say this but there must…. MUST have paper ballots for elections, or at least paper ballots for congressional, gubernatorial and presidential elections.

THIS MUST BE THE LAW.

[questionseverything]

91. That's the thing, most places have paper ballots but it takes a court order to hand count them

For recounts most places just run them through the scanners which is still not transparent and then there are several other layers of electronic screens and software to add everything together

[Abstractartist]

109. Yes

Yes, but the paper ballots has the paper trail and what also is needed (if possible) is a system to count paper ballots involving a democrat, a republican and nonpartisan judges.

[Abnredleg]

135. But those same states do audits

And an increasing number are doing Risk Limiting Audits that hand count random samples. No major discrepancies have been found in those audits.

[questionseverything]

136. You are saying things that aren't true

There wouldnt be court cases going on if nothing was found

People have signed affidavits saying they voted for the democrat in districts where not one democratic vote was recorded

Partial audits are worthless

[Abnredleg]

139. We're talking a handful of precincts in NY

We have had plenty of allegations of election fraud over the past few cycles, all of which fall apart during cross examination. And even if there were issue in some precincts in NY, that isn’t evidence of a national scheme.

As to partial audits, they are accurate if done properly. Typically Risk Limiting Audits increase the sample size in close races to ensure the audit is accurate.

[questionseverything]

143. If the machine can be wrong in on precinct it can be wrong in any precinct

Hand counting of the paper ballots in full public view is the only way the average citizen can oversee the vote, anything else is “trust me” and undemocratic

[Abnredleg]

152. The audit process is public

and involved hand counting paper ballots in almost all the swing states.

[Buddyzbuddy]

48. My question is, if it's true, what can be realistically done?

I absolutely want the truth. But, given the Felon's actions following the election of 2020 which he obviously lost. What do we think we'll have to contend with if we ultimately can prove Kamala Harris actually won?

1) what can be done?
2) what are we willing to do?

[Xavier Breath]

56. That's the bottom line.

We'd have one party and the media saying "So, he stole an election? Why do you insist on dwelling on the past? We need to move this country forward. Bygones."

Or words to that effect.

[regnaD kciN]

59. More to the point...

...if they can rig that election, what makes you think they won't rig every election in the future?

[Buddyzbuddy]

99. We're always 1 step behind.

We knew this was a possibility, but we're told to trust the system. Our side never wants to admit to the possibility, so we concede ASAP. The other side avoids conceding above all else. They will go to their grave claiming they won in 2020. Just ask Bernie Kerik or John Eastman, just to mention two.

We still haven't solved purging of the voter rolls. How are we going to fix the problems when some on this site consider this a far fetched conspiracy theory. Some won't allow themselves to even consider this could be true. It needs to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

And yet, we're back to my original question. What then? Not one Republican will ever concede, apologize or attempt to to rectify the situation. So, short of a civil war, what then? Maybe somebody has a solution? Maybe this is why the powers that be, concede so quickly. Because then our system is exposed as vulnerable to abuse, cheating and manipulation by dishonorable people. A house of cards.

[GoodRaisin]

141. Yes. Do we understand it enough to stop it in 2026?

[Buddyzbuddy]

157. IMHO, we as, Democrats need to plan for the worst case scenario.

Which, I think we can agree is the Felon declaring Marshall law.

He will need protests and civil unrest to justify it. Not much, just enough
for film at 11.

Naturally we will want protests right up to the election. They will be counting on that. They would most likely plant a few instigators of violence and mayhem within the protest groups. I think that's why they're testing the waters now.
I think we shouldn't have organized large protests 90 days out from elections. I think we need a call for calm on all fronts. It's odd coming from me, I know. But our loudest unified voice should be used at the ballot box. A LOUD booming voice heard around the world and that day, they should know, it's just the beginning. A harbinger of things to come.

[ancianita]

50. This DIGITAL AMBUSH OF ELECTIONS will continue until it's stopped by high turnout in all battlegrounds.

When election numbers don't reflect consistent public polling, the DNC must demand and pay for the hand recount in all states we lose.

That DNC fight is THE investment in disclosure about the reality of vote counting "systems" in those states. Then the hand count verification along with evidence of election fraud must be presented in US state and federal courts.

That will be the uphill fight to stop the Koch/Musk oligarch network's theft of democracy.

It will have to be fought, and the DNC must lead that fight.

[wcmagumba]

51. Cheaters gonna cheat, we've got an unelected rodent for president...I've said this since the "election"...

[czarjak]

54. We wuz robbed again?

"If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."?
Only since 1992.

[MaineNative]

57. I believe Greg Palast has the answer -

Here are key numbers:

4,776,706 voters were wrongly purged from voter rolls according to US Elections Assistance Commission data.
By August of 2024, for the first time since 1946, self-proclaimed “vigilante” voter-fraud hunters challenged the rights of 317,886 voters. The NAACP of Georgia estimates that by Election Day, the challenges exceeded 200,000 in Georgia alone.
No less than 2,121,000 mail-in ballots were disqualified for minor clerical errors (e.g. postage due).
At least 585,000 ballots cast in-precinct were also disqualified.
1,216,000 “provisional” ballots were rejected, not counted.
3.24 million new registrations were rejected or not entered on the rolls in time to vote.

[Jit423]

60. Time for a Rachel special on this or CNN or PBS

[DiamondShark]

71. Let me hop in a time machine...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219941725

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219957121

[Quakerfriend]

62. So stolen! And, guess who owns Eaton-

L. Leo!!

[yellow dahlia]

65. We need to keep talking about all the evidence and data that have been revealed in recent months.

Thank you!

[kimbutgar]

72. I woke up one night after the election and thought the same thing is they manipulated the tabulation

And remembered coding classes I had taken and knew what they did. It was so strange to me that the thought came that way as I had accepted disgustingly that he won.

[bluestarone]

73. I'm saying

ALL eyes better be open any ready to question anything that smells rotten in 2026. That's our time!!!

[Picaro]

79. Here is what I'll say to those who are saying this is just simple nuttery

The thing that really distinguishes this contention from the contention that the 2020 election was stolen is that this can be tested. There is an actual method that is being detailed. This could be tested and it can be determined whether these intelligent power cords were not de minimis—that they could have been used to get past the ultimate security of an air gap (that the tabulation systems were not accessible via any network because they were not connected to any network wireless or wired).

The constant bleating of massive election fraud concerning the 2020 election being stolen always lacked any sort of mechanism. Any sort of how the stealing was performed. The 2020 election nutters did go after voting tabulators, but they had reached their conclusion and then were attempting to mold reality to fit their conclusion.

This is different. People have done statistical analysis and the results show some weird anomalous patterns that statistically don’t make sense. Then they have looked at how the vote totals could have been tweaked given that the tabulation systems should never be connected to any kind of network.

These intelligent power cords could have given that kind of root level access to the systems.

But this needs to be tested and verified. Is this hypothesis even possible.

Very different than the 2020 “my guy couldn’t have possibly lost” hysteria. They were just doing their usual flooding the zone without even a theory as to how the massive nationwide election fraud was accomplished.

This is different. I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand yet. I would love to see a court case where this kind of back door access could be tested and demonstrated. I’ve worked with actual voting machines (not the tabulators) in the past and they were the most insecure systems I ever laid my hands on. They had hard coded passwords that could not be changed. Years ago but, as a IT professional, I was astounded.

Anyway, don’t reflexively dismiss this. There could be something to it.

[Karasu]

92. THIS. It's utterly ridiculous to see people here comparing this to RW conspiracy theories. The RW are people who have a

conspiracy theory for literally EVERYTHING and have normalized that shit since long before denying the results of 2020 (based on absolutely nothing but Trump's words and wishful thinking). By now, most all of them believe in conspiracy theories of some kind or another. They believe in the likes of Pizzagate, QAnon, the Deep State, the "Cabal," the Great Replacement, microchips in vaccines...the list goes on and on and on. So long that we'd be here all fucking day if I tried to go into every single one of them from the last decade alone.

Nothing we're saying here is remotely comparable to ANY of that shit and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

Thank you for approaching this with reason and a level head. What we're saying is based on evidence that actually has the ability to be properly tested.

[Abnredleg]

154. Network security protocols for election equipment are pretty rigorous

And everything connected to them are scrutinized so I would be very surprised if this turns out to be a genuine threat, especially since you don’t need to connect power devices to the network or the election equipment for them to function. You plug the device into a power outlet and plug the election equipment into the power device so just because there is the capability to connect to the Internet or the election equipment means it will. And let’s not forget that elections are run by counties, which means you run into the major problem of all fraud theories, which is that it requires thousands of people at the local level to pull it off. There are too many people observing the process for major irregularities to go unnoticed. There are too many people with insight of voting patterns for large irregularities to go unnoticed.

[kentuck]

94. So that's why he's doing such a shitty job?

He knows he lost?

[PufPuf23]

95. The 2000 election was stolen.

Never been confident in elections since.

Way more potential for technical intervention now.

[B.See]

97. There was an interesting article

by Thom Hartmann that explored the legitimacy of recent GOP residencies.

[IbogaProject]

98. Rove openly stated that they can and would cheat

The requirement 20 years ago would be that the election was close then they could switch just enough to not have a full recount audit.

[IcyPeas]

100. And now there's AI . that'll be manipulated in their favor somehow.

[BlueTsunami2018]

102. That may very well be but there isn't anything to be done about it.

He’s the President, the bad guys own all of government. Even if there was definitive proof of all this, nobody would do anything about it. The election was conceded and they were all sworn in.

There would be protests, sure. The same people who came out last Saturday would be there, the MAGAts would still be the MAGAts and the indifferent would still be the indifferent.

Nothing matters anymore. Everyone is going to cling to their team no matter what happens. And then people who don’t care one way or the other aren’t going to suddenly be involved.

We’re stuck with these assholes, probably for the next fifty years or so.

It’s not until things get so bad that people have nothing left to lose that you will see the action that should have been taken long ago. We’re too comfortable and doing what needs to be done is too inconvenient and too horrible for anyone to think about right now, let alone activate.

[neohippie]

110. At the very least we need to know if our election process is safe

To say that there isn't anything that can be done about it, is to ignore that we need to know if our elections can be manipulated or if they are worth having any faith in, we certainly don't want to ignore warnings that the process can be manipulated

So any claims should be proven to be either unfounded and proven false, or if there is real evidence that something like this could be done and what we can change to prevent it.

The county in New York with zero votes for Harris was not the only one in the country there were others in Pennsylvania and Nevada too. The swing state anomalies deserve to be investigated as do the counties with zero votes.

The New York lawsuit is doing this for that county

[BlueTsunami2018]

111. Well, I'm glad someone is looking into it.

I just wonder if having irrefutable proof would change anything.

[questionseverything]

130. Maybe we can make the next election count transparent?

[marble falls]

124. What information do you lack?

[HarryM]

105. WTF did people sat back in 2000

When they first started with these computerized machines? We computer “people” told them that it was the worst thing, and that it would make it easier to fix. We emphasized this after Shrub ntroduced his “Help America Vote Act,” which required computerized elections.
We said that there should be plain paper ballots. They have been used forever, and do not have the easy to hack factor of computers.
People didn’t listen, and we now have this.

[samnsara]

106. when people say they voted for someone and the count shows 0 then somethings not right

[hueymahl]

107. Interestingly, I have seem nearly exactly the same arguments made about the 2020 election

Different actors maybe, but same types of claims. That said, I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory.

[Kali999]

108. Russian tail

Look up the Russian tail. It's been used all over. I watched returns for years and knew it was bull shit when all the swing states rolled over. It was voter suppression and Russia and Musk through the tabulators they updated right before the election. It's gaslighting due to his four yr campaign on election theft. I was and am still pissed they didn't contest it. Likely changing to independent due to this and the David Hogg debacle. Although about Hogg, americans aren't parting with guns.
Call me sensitive but i stopped watching House of cards when they won the election. Too close to home.

[spanone]

113. K&R

[Botany]

114. Part 2 ...... they had the courts too. Just as important as part 1. Please give it some love.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220412804

[annielion]

117. The statisticians have the evidence of massive vote manipulation

Those "experts" like Marc Elias do not understand computer voting. Computers do exactly what the program tells them to do. Statisticians are the ones who see that the results have been manipulated through those "vote-counting computers". Both SmartElections.us and ElectionTruthAlliance.org have a great deal of evidence of vote manipulation. The proof of vote manipulation is obtained through comparison of this evidence with some of the actual ballots, which SmartElections is presently doing in Rockland County, New York. My understanding is we can continue to vote on computers if we have forensic audits after each election (this does not involve looking at every ballot).
I strongly recommend everyone look at the SmartElections.us and ElectionTruthAlliance.org websites.

[Initech]

121. Palantir is a truly fucking evil corporation. Peter Theil needs to be hauled off to Supermax now.

Fuck him. Also fuck Marjorie Greene who invested in this evil corporation and everyone else that did too.

[BComplex]

122. Thank you, Botany!! This is something that so many have ignored for so long. 2024 was so obviously rigged/stolen.

And it needs to come out.

I have to say, I'm extremely disappointed in Kamala Harris and Tim Walz not demanding investigations immediately after the election. I think it was KNOWING the election was rigged that made Kamala shut herself off from the world this whole time.

Because trump, and the shithead republicans, had been repeating ad nauseam for YEARS that their election was stolen, any democrat would be EMBARRASSED to parrot that accusation, even though this time it was obviously true, and the fucking billionaires that the supreme court gave our elections to knew that in advance.

[Six117]

126. The truth matters.

Thank you for this contribution. We have valid questions. Let's not forget:

Donald Trump Has 'Obligations' to Those Who Brought Him to Power—Putin Ally

https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-nikolai-patrushev-donald-trump-russia-1984360

"Nikolai Patrushev, part of the Russian president's inner circle and former Secretary of the Security Council, told the Russian newspaper Kommersant that Trump was duty-bound to act on his words.

Patrushev said: "To achieve success in the elections, Donald Trump relied on certain forces to which he has corresponding obligations. And as a responsible person, he will be obliged to fulfill them."
- end snip

What "forces" were used?

[B.See]

164. truth always matters

[hadEnuf]

140. The people who rail that this is just a conspiracy theory are really not looking at the obvious.

Look at the track record of these people. They've been screwing with votes and voting for decades. They started an insurrection to overturn the 2020 election. They are now engaged in dismantling the Constitution, Bill of Rights and democracy itself right before our eyes in real time.

But somehow, SOMEHOW, voting is sacrosanct to them, and they would never touch or interfere with it?

Get frigging real. If there was a way to do it, they did it.

[Kid Berwyn]

158. They were busted red handed in 2020.

Literally, breaking and entering into election facilities and floating fake electors all around.

WTF? Why were they free to touch, let alone run, elections in 2024?

[JanMichael]

165. Is the DTC thing real? If so wow.

"DTC doesn’t require routers, towers, or a traditional SIM. It connects directly from satellite to any compatible device—including embedded modems in “air-gapped” voting systems, smart UPS units, or unsecured auxiliary hardware.

From that moment on:
- Commands could be sent from orbit
- Patch delivery became invisible to domestic monitors
- Compromised devices could be triggered remotely"

So many of the voting machines can be remotely fucked with even though we are told that they aren't online and can't be meddled with?

This cannot be real, right?

Because if it is it doesn't take a huge conspiracy of tech nerds to auto fuck with votes. A small number of those snot nosed little fascists could program a algorithm to run the whole thing.

[Botany]

166. It wasn't with the voting machine but the central tabulators which if you believe this sub stack piece had ...

… already been compromised.

And about 1 week before the election Musk put into place > 200 mini satellites in
low earth orbit that could connect to selected cell phones on earth.