Person who called 911 for deceased former US attorney Jessica Aber 'refused' to perform CPR

[orangecrush]

The person who called 911 for Jessica Aber, the 43-year-old former federal prosecutor who was found dead in her home in Virginia on Saturday morning, refused to perform CPR, it’s been reported.

First responders were called to Aber’s home in Alexandria at 9:18 am local time after receiving a report about an unresponsive woman.

Officials are yet to announce a cause of death, but a family friend told Fox News Sunday that Aber suffered from a medical condition. "Police believe the death was the result of a longstanding medical issue," the source said.

According to a dispatch audio obtained by NBC News, the caller refused to administer CPR on the attorney. “Any additional units... for the cardiac arrest. 916 Beverly Drive," the dispatcher is heard saying.

"That’ll be for a 46-year-old female found in bed unresponsive, not breathing. The caller has refused CPR.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/former-us-attorney-jessica-aber-death-b2720493.html

?????????

[EYESORE 9001]

1. She was only 43, as noted farther down in linked article

I hope the autopsy includes tests for traces of poison.

[underpants]

18. Young people die from unknown heart conditions sadly all the time

Hank Gathers was 23
There was a young woman in this area who finished a 1/2 marathon and died. She was 17 at the time.

[EYESORE 9001]

19. It's still not that common, statistically

And I still hope they check carefully for strange substances.

[still-prayin4rain]

52. Agree. It's fairly rare and should investigated. COULD be nothing, of course, but acting like

slim, presumably healthy 43 year old females simply drop dead "all the time," is silly.

[gab13by13]

31. Did you see the list of people she prosecuted?

I'm waiting for the autopsy, and then I won't be sure.

[Mossfern]

32. I had a near fatal heart attack

when I was 46. It does happen.

I'm being tested for a genetic clotting disorder tomorrow - not for me, I've been on rat poison(Warfarin) for 30 years. The testing is to make sure that if it is genetic that my children need to be tested as well as my grand kids.

[underpants]

41. Glad you made it.

My now passed father in law had his first at 36. Of course he was smoking about 2 packs of unfiltered Pall Malls a day and walking atop coal trains all day.

[Ms. Toad]

53. A friend of mine died from a heart attack - for 13 minutes

While playing tennis. CPR was performed during that time until an ambulance arrived with a defibrillator and they were able to revive him. He was older (60-ish), but was in good health by all measures which are normally checked at annual exams.

His cholesterol was within normal ranges for all components routinely tested for. But routine cholesterol scanning is a blunt tool and relies on averages to catch the more routine types of troublesome cholesterol. So he and his doctors were completely unaware he was dangerously close to death from atherosclerosis. He had high apo(b) and lp(a), subclasses of ldl which is known to be highly associated with atherosclerosis (and heart attacks). The predisposition to elevated apo(b) adn lp(a) is genetic.

[Passages]

2. Too sad.

Refused to perform CPR? Maybe they had no idea how to do so.

[rampartd]

6. itself a sad statement on our education system

cpr classes have been available for many years

[Bernardo de La Paz]

27. Legal system too. Some people fear legal consequences even if person lives, but with injuries, etc. . . . nt

[canetoad]

66. That was my take too

Risk of being sued etc.

[valleyrogue]

39. This has nothing to do with schools or "educational system."

CPR classes are available for the community. Most people aren't required to take them.

There are people who cannot perform CPR without some devices to help, and those aren't always available.

I for one cannot perform CPR without a special mouthpiece because of my breathing capacity.

[EdmondDantes_]

48. There's CPR that doesn't require giving rescue breathes

Just chest compressions

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/17680-cardiopulmonary-resuscitation-cpr

[SheltieLover]

10. Pretty sure 911 woukd've walked them through the process over the phone

[Passages]

11. Good point!

[SheltieLover]

12. Thx

[exboyfil]

3. Refused or unable

I hate to admit that I have never been trained. Not sure what I would do under similar circumstances.

[TommyT139]

17. Do you know "Stayin' Alive"?

If so, you know almost enough to do CPR.

"Advice given in an episode of “The Office” is accurate. Administering CPR at the same beat as the hit song by The Bee Gees could help save a life."

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/health-verify/cpr-tempo-stayin-alive-bee-gees/536-c98a6ca5-f748-42ce-a86c-6e80a810aa90

Here's a Red Cross video (under 2 minutes):

And here's the clip from The Office:

?si=AhlXvXlwssddxbqa

[EYESORE 9001]

20. It also works with

Another One Bites the Dust, although bystanders don’t have much of a sense of humor

[Renew Deal]

62. There are many reasons I can think of why someone wouldn't do it.

#1, the person might have been very obviously dead.

They could also be germ phobic, untrained, scared, panicked, have their own medical condition, and probably many more reasons. Ultimately, people in CPR classes are told that they are not obligated to get involved.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. I mean....if someone's dead, CPR isn't going to help. Lay people can certianly make that observation.

[Ms. Toad]

61. Yes, and no.

A friend of mine was dead for 13 minutes. CPR was started immediately and was continued for the entire time until ambulance arrived with a defibrillator, which was used to restart his heart. That was 16 years ago.

He was extremely lucky in that he collapsed in front of someone who knew CPR and was willing to perform it. We obviously don't know the status of Ms. Aber - it may be that she was obviously dead (and had been so long enough that circulating blood while waiting for EMS to arrive). But there are degrees of dead - and performing CPR does no harm if the person is already dead.

Ironically, I just had this conversation with my daughter. A co-worker at Amazon died on the floor a little over a week ago. It wasn't on her shift - but the reports she heard were that no one performed CPR at all, or quicky enough. She's had CPR training - but long enough ago that she doesn't remember much about it - and would have been afraid to start CPR because they might not actually need it. I walked her through both CPR (no need to do breathing, under the current thinking), presumed consent, the good Samaritan law, and use of a defibrillator (yes, she would need to open/remove their shirt), and how to take charge if the safety team isn't immediately available. She didn't know where the defibrillators were - so she was going to check the next day. It shook her.

[ms liberty]

5. If she had a medical condition as reported, the caller may have been following her wishes

This is the first article to give this much info.

[eShirl]

7. that's right

thinking of getting "DO NOT RESUSCITATE" tatooed in big bold letters across my chest someday, if the Big C comes back

[pbrmn]

8. No new news

Its amazing how quickly this story moved out of the news. I googled her name just now and the latest on this story was 20 hours old. Have we already moved away from this high profile womans untimely death?

[onenote]

38. Do you have some new information that should be reported?

Please share what you think the media is withholding.

[yardwork]

9. This is a misunderstanding of what the 911 operator said.

"The caller has refused CPR" is shorthand. It doesn't mean the same as "the caller refused to do CPR."

We font know know enough to conclude that.

[SheltieLover]

13. Could be there were visible signs of trauma nobody could survive?

I hope not, but let's face it, if she had a gunshot wound that destroyed her head or chest, who woukd agree to do cpr?

[Midnight Writer]

14. Or perhaps the body was cold. If she was obviously dead and had been for some time, what's the point?

[SheltieLover]

15. Also possibility.

I find it strange ghey referred to the person as "the caller."

Sort of smacks of suspicious circumstances they are not willing to admit to.

Poor woman. She fought the goid fight during her all too short life.

[EYESORE 9001]

21. During my EMT training

I was instructed that only an M.D. could make a pronouncement of death, with a sole exception: full decapitation of the victim. Whether that’s gospel or lore, I can’t say.

[SheltieLover]

22. Likely true, legally, but if someone has a hole in their chest a semi

Could drive through...

[EYESORE 9001]

24. Yeah, I'd have to take a pass on that myself

I think any reasonable observer would agree with that assessment.

[SheltieLover]

25. It's just weird if they truly believe she died of natural causes,

Why not just say a friend or her mother or whoever found her unresponsive?

All their shoveling likely amounts to trying to cover up a pile of shit imo.

She prosecuted a lot of ruskies... poison?

[EYESORE 9001]

26. Poison was my first thought upon reading the headline

I hope someone is looking into her activities and encounters in the day preceding.

[SheltieLover]

28. I hope so, too, byt if ruskies were involved,

This DoJ would pin a medal on the perp.

Poison was my first thought, too.

[Maru Kitteh]

50. As an RN I've declared LOTS of people dead. nt

[littlemissmartypants]

64. I do it all the time...

But mine are more like "you're dead to me" pronouncements. Not unlike using the phrase, "you're fired" and it's very liberating.

[Blue_Roses]

16. Who made the 911 call????

I wonder why they haven't released their name.

[onenote]

37. In many places, as a matter of law, the identity of 911 callers is protected as a privacy matter

This occurred in Virginia, where the law provides for the redaction of personal, medical, or financial information from 911 call records to protect safety or privacy.

I know that isn't going to satisfy the tin foilers on this thread, but there it is.

[Blue_Roses]

56. Makes sense

n/t

[radicalleft]

23. Maybe finding a corpse would be traumatic...

Not something ones comes across every day. There is no law that says one has to perform/provide EM services.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

29. No thank you. That's what 911 is for.

Regardless of the state of the body, too many frivolous lawsuits targeting people trying to save a life. Suing for broken ribs, suing for trauma, suing for "Violation of suicidal intent", suing for sexual harassment and suing for Gods only know what else.

Hard pass on laying hands on a stranger. Let EMS deal with it.

[Tim S]

30. Immunocompromised?

I was once a caregiver for someone who was immunocompromised. If I called 911 for a body that was as not breathing while still being responsible for someone who is immunocompromised, I may have refused to perform CPR too.

Don’t be so quick to judge until you know all the details. Unless the caller is used to dealing with dead bodies, it was likely a traumatic event for them. If anything, I feel sympathy for them.

[valleyrogue]

40. Not everybody can perform CPR.

This isn't something people should second guess.

[Ilsa]

33. I found my husband dead.

I didn't perform CPR. His body was cold and levidity had set in.

Neither CPR or use of an AED will work.

[3catwoman3]

35. How sad that must have been.

[Ilsa]

43. 2 years. Still hurts, makes

my heart ache. I had to see a cardiologist about 4 months after the event because the ECG at my physical was slightly "off." Takotsubo cardiomyopathy is a real thing. Fortunztely, I got my heartbreak under control.

[3catwoman3]

45. 2years is not very long, especially if your marriage...

…was a long one. I just attended a celebration of life for a much beloved congregation member of the very small Unitarian Universalist church I belong to. An 89 year old woman, who married her husband right before finishing high school. They were married for 72 years. He is 93, and just as beloved by all of us as his wife was.

My major loss thus far in my life was the way-too-early death of my brother, my only sibling, in a scuba diving adventure gone awry. He was only 23. I was 26. I’m now 73. The passage of time eventually softens the sharp edges of initial grief, but you are forever changed.

I hope there are still some things in your life that give you joy.

[Ilsa]

63. Thank you for your kind words. Yes,

we had been together over 30 years. I still have much to clean up, clear up, finalize. I haven't figured out how I'm going to rebuild my life without him.

[orangecrush]

36. Sorry for your loss

Good point.

[3catwoman3]

34. Or someone could be concerned about a contagious disease.

If I didn’t have a mouth shield, I would be very reluctant to make mouth-to-mouth contact with someone whose health status was unknown to me.

[BlueKota]

42. We were taught CPR in high-school

health class, but that was 45 years ago. All I remember is counting one one thousand, 2 one thousand. And if another person is doing team CPR with you, at some point, you say, "next time switch on three."

[Mike 03]

44. I'm reserving judgment on this one. Firstly, many people don't know

that CPR no longer requires mouth-to-mouth contact. Secondly, seeing a person with no traumatic injuries this young has died, one immediately suspects opiates (i.e., Fentanyl) and even microscopic amounts of that can kill you. Even hand contact with a corpse might be dangerous.

And this person had just been fired or resigned in disgust, so I would think of suicide (or death of despair--ie drugs). All the more reason, if you don't have gloves or know the new updated CPR procedure, to hesitate to perform it.

So I want to know the reasons before I judge this person's inaction.

[ProfessorGAC]

46. An Unsupported Myth Is...

...that short term contact with fentanyl or an affected victim can cause OD & death.

Experts told CBS News that touching fentanyl powder will not cause an overdose. In powder form, the way it's almost always found in the illicit drug supply, the drug cannot absorb through the skin, said Ryan Marino,a medical toxicologist, emergency physician and addiction medicine specialist at the Cleveland Medical Center. Just being near the substance also won't cause an overdose.

"Fentanyl as a dry powder is not going to cross through your skin. It's the same reason you can touch sugar without your blood sugar going up," said Marino. "Solids don't cross through your skin."

Major medical groups have also issued statements about the risk — or lack thereof — from touching fentanyl. In 2017, the American College of Medical Toxicology and the American Academy of Clinical Toxicology issued a joint position statement stating that "incidental dermal absorption is unlikely to cause opioid toxicity." One video, created by harm reductionist Chad Sabora, shows Sabora holding fentanyl and not having any adverse effects as he tests the substance.

Of course, not everybody knows this, so the concern persists.

https://www.acmt.net/news/you-cant-overdose-on-fentanyl-just-by-touching-it-heres-what-experts-say/

[pinkstarburst]

47. I am not going to rush to judgement

They probably didn't have a face shield or breathing apparatus on hand. If they knew the victim had prosecuted lots of high profile Russians, they may have had good reason to fear she'd been poisoned and good reason to fear that doing CPR, which requires mouth to mouth contact, could bring them into contact with the poison and kill them, too. They may have worried the poison could be transferred from skin to skin contact, too, which would make them fearful of chest compressions if they didn't have latex gloves on hand.

[Maru Kitteh]

49. There can be MANY reasons for refusing CPR, I don't see a reason listed

but I can think of several, easily.

Body is already cold.
Vomitus still present around both the mouth and nose and no PPE or ambu bag available..
Unsure if lethal medication/poison is present.

[orangecrush]

54. The last one

Is interesting to say the least

[Vinca]

51. Maybe it was obvious she'd been dead awhile. I wouldn't want to do CPR on a dead person either.

[ecstatic]

55. CPR can be done with hands only.

Chest compressions. There's no longer a mouth to mouth requirement.

[Jedi Guy]

57. Not surprised if the person who called 911 was untrained or panic-stricken.

Even properly administered CPR can break ribs and/or the sternum. That's a lesser consideration if someone is in the throes of cardiac arrest, of course, since bones heal and death is somewhat permanent. The caller may well have been concerned about the possibility of unintentionally injuring Ms. Aber further.

We also don't know the caller's relation, if any, to Ms. Aber. If they were "freaking out" or otherwise too panicked to focus, I can understand not having the mental wherewithal required to attempt CPR. In a highly emotionally charged situation, some people have a tendency to freeze.

I took CPR training last fall (drew the short straw in my office) and our instructor discussed why people might refuse to help. Part of the training is instructing those who haven't been trained or asking them to assist (calling first responders, handling first aid materials, helping to reposition the injured, etc.) and he told us not to be shocked if people flatly refuse to get involved.

I think this information has induced some folks to jump to conclusions. It certainly seems to have spurred some conspiracy theories...

[Renew Deal]

58. The headline is a bit inflammatory

[Jacson6]

60. They are designed like that so when someone sees the headline they will click the link and they can present ads. n/t

[Rebl2]

59. Maybe she

had a DNR?

[Meowmee]

65. It is not that easy to do by yourself

Maybe they didn't know how or thought it was too late. I had training for that for cpr but I don't remember how to do it now, it was years ago. Also have you ever seen a full code? Yes it can save someone but it takes a whole room full of people to do it.