U. S. Expats Are Revealing The "We're Being Scammed" Realizations They Had After Moving Abroad

[Diamond_Dog]

This past year, we featured a viral TikTok that compared the cost of living in the US and Australia, which brought up the notion that "America is a scam." Many people (like myself) were shocked by the numbers, but those in the BuzzFeed Community who've either moved to or from the US to another country knew about the differences all too well. Here are some of the most insightful and surprising "America is a scam" stories people shared:

1."Credit scores. An arbitrary number that you have no control over can bar you from living in a decent area, landing a job, getting fair rates for insurance and loans, and even costing you opportunities to improve your life. Full disclosure: I left the US nearly 15 years ago. I now live in Poland and own my own business with full civil rights and privileges."

2."I lived in Northern England for a time on a student work abroad visa. I was in need of birth control, so I went to the doctor. I was offered an implant that wasn't available in the US until years later. When setting up my appointment, I asked about the out-of-pocket cost, and the staff looked at me like I had grown two heads. There was no cost, of course. When my British roommate later became pregnant with her children years later, her doctor did house calls. She also received a year of maternity leave with a guarantee she could return to her job. Living abroad did a ton to break the spell of 'American exceptionalism' and showed me how a 'we're #1' philosophy could blind us to subpar conditions. When I was young, I wanted to move from the US for positive reasons, like adventure. It saddens me that my desire for it is now due to a seemingly worsening quality of life and a tenuous political situation here at home."

Much more. Very interesting read……

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/24-america-scam-stories-people-101502209.html

No guns. No angry assholes. No road rage. People are kind. Free or low cost quality healthcare. 30 days paid vacations. Public unions. Dependable public transportation. Better food ……. It all sounds like a pipe dream…..

[dalton99a]

1. Americans are being scammed, enslaved, robbed by the oligarchs and corrupt politicians

[Bluethroughu]

3. And almost half are idiots, that want to give more of their hard earned money to billionaires.

[PJMcK]

19. More than half, I'm afraid (n/t)

[PJMcK]

27. Really?

Who won the election?

Didn't the fellow who got the most votes win?

The policies that the next Trump administration will implement won't be beneficial for most Americans if the past is prelude.

Split the hairs any way you want.

Trump won.

Harris lost.

Expats live outside the U.S. and their votes clearly didn't change the election. More importantly, they left the country for a reason, don't you think?

Kindly explain your point.

[PJMcK]

32. Okay

You seem to be suggesting that the election was rigged for Republicans.

Am I understanding your post correctly?

Since you've made allegation that the election was fraudulent, please provide EVIDENCE not theories.

Remember when Giuliani said that he doesn't have evidence but he has theories of evidence? (Or words to that effect.)

Let's live in a factual world.

[arthritisR_US]

51. A factual world would have done a hand recount of huge numbers

of US states but that didn’t happen so I don’t see factual in the equation.

[defacto7]

72. How can one have evidence based on data

if the data isn't being gathered?

[LT Barclay]

140. The "evidence" died in a plane crash.

https://www.alternet.org/2008/12/roves_it_guru_warned_of_sabotage_before_fatal_plane_crash_was_set_to_testify

and I wasn't going to believe that this one was rigged, because I couldn't imagine anyone benefiting from his chaos, capriciousness, bellicosity (used up my thesaurus time), until I read these:

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2024-4-winter/feature/lng-gas-terminals-future-gulf-coast-texas
https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/2024-4-winter/feature/willow-project-alaska-north-slope-oil-giants-trump-administration-drilling

That is as close to evidence as we as citizens are ever going to get. If you or I got any closer we'd be dead.

[Beck23]

125. Trump won a plurality, not a majority

[soldierant]

133. Trump** won with a plurality, not a mojority.

He received 49.9% of the vote. Yeah., that's close to half but it is not more than half - of the voters And then there are the roughly 175.8 million who did not vote. Some were not eligible (I subtracted the voting population from the entire population of the US, so that includes several kind of people who can not vote legally.) But my point it, there are a heck of a lot more people who did not vote for him than there are that did.

[elocs]

64. Yes, because you must include millions who in past elections "claimed" to be Democrats,

but whose misogyny and racism pushed their stupidity over the top so they refused to vote for Harris.

[ECL213]

102. And Rome continues to burn...

While a bunch of dipshits will now start arguing about the meaning of “half”.

[Callie1979]

111. Well, if you buy a lot of things you're "giving money to billionaires"

I mean, there are lots of things we HAVE to buy. I cant help it if a billionaire owns Home Depot or whatever.

[2naSalit]

31. Soon to be...

Annexed and renamed West ruzzia.

[Initech]

37. I seriously wonder why we haven't risen up as one and fought back against the billionaire scumbags.

Oh wait, we're too busy fighting each other over what one shitty news network says.

[Hassler]

2. Meanwhile we're governed by petulant asshole John Roberts and the

Rest of the SCROTUS 6.

[usonian]

4. "Citizens United" made it a democracy of corporations, not what used to be citizens.

Sold to the highest bidder.

[Diamond_Dog]

6. Yep - totally agree

[PeaceWave]

5. Hang on. How is a credit score an "arbitrary number?" Pay what you owe and you'll have a good score.

[LisaM]

8. Not necessarily true. First you have to establish credit

which can take years and then they can ding you if you don't own a house or even if you don't use credit but pay cash.

My credit score is high but once it went down for seemingly no reason and it turned out it was because I opened a store credit card at Nordstrom, which I rarely use and always pay off right away. Just taking advantage of a store offer lowered my credit rating, even with zero additional debt.

[PeaceWave]

11. Okay. I'll give you this. The use of credit really should be taught in high school...

It's amazing how many people don't know how to use a credit card.

[56miSSie]

139. Mine was called Consumer Ed.....early 1970's

We learned about banking--checking and savings accounts, mortgages, insurances, budgeting expenses, all kinds of helpful stuff.

[LisaM]

47. First, no one should be dinged for not having debt.

I have zero debt. Yet just opening a store credit card with a measly $3000 credit limit lowered my credit rating. I don't carry that many cards (one each of the major companies and one other store card). I always pay them off. So yes, so I consider it arbitrary that my score was lowered for having one low limit card that I have never carried a balance on. IIRC, I opened it because I got a nice discount and $40 back on my first purchase. Didn't even carry the balance for 30 days.

I also live in a large city where many people rent. Another arbitrary issue for many people. If you can't incur debt, you can't get a rating. That seems very backwards to me.

[PeaceWave]

52. Based on what you've said about your experience, here is my advice...

(1) Don't ever get a store credit card. Stores are notorious for cancelling your credit card if you don't use it frequently. Those closures can play havoc with your credit - and stay on your credit report for 10 years.

(2) One of the key components that goes into factoring your credit score is average length of your credit history. For this reason, you really need to think long and hard before closing a credit card. One of the best things you can do is to get a small credit limit card when you're young and never abuse it. Keep that sucker open. Now, let's say that 20 years goes by and you acquire a second larger credit limit card. Instead of having an average length of credit history of 0 years (which would have been the case had you closed that small limit card years before) you now have an average length of credit history of 10 years (which is quite good).

(3) It's great that you always pay off your debt. Contrary to what some would have you believe, carrying debt is not necessary to achieve a high credit score. Quite the opposite. What is important is credit utilization - the amount you owe relative to your available credit. This is where having a few credit cards as opposed to only one really helps. If you only have one credit card with a limit of $1,000 and you buy a $500 TV, then you have a credit utilization of 50%. In the eyes of a prospective lender, you're getting close to being in over your head. In contrast, if you have three credit cards, each with a limit of $1,000, and you buy that same $500 TV, then you have a credit utilization of only 17%.

(4) Don't let cards go stagnant. Using them regularly shows responsible use of credit (and will keep them from getting cancelled). Here's where I use a little trick when paying my ungodly $150 monthly cable bill. Instead of using just one card to pay the whole bill, I use 2 or even 3 cards to pay the bill in increments of either $50 or $75. The effect on the cable bill is the same - it is paid in full. The effect on my credit is different though. Instead of reflecting one card balance paid off, 2 or 3 balances have been paid off.

(5) If your income ever goes down (such as when you retire), keep that information to yourself. The credit card companies have become extremely active in attempting to extract updated income information from you. Want to access your account online? Answer these few questions first. BS. Just close the site and re-enter and those questions are no longer there. Answering those questions will have multiple negative ramifications on your credit score. Of course, the opposite is true should your income go up. Then, by all means, share that information.

Hope this was of help.

[LisaM]

55. I am not sure why you are giving me this tutorial.

I don't have a credit problem. I'm simply trying to point out that the whole scam of demanding people establish credit just to get basic services is capricious. And there are plenty of groups who have obstacles thrown in their way even when they are doing everything right. Like everything else, it favors the haves over the have nots.

Don't get me started on interest rates; I don't have to deal with them since I don't carry a balance, but they are punitive and uxorious.

[PeaceWave]

56. It might not be of help to you. But, it may well be to someone else.

[FullySupportDems]

79. Thank you, it was helpful

I just read it over and there was some new information. Store credit cards, dang, you have to watch those. And they're always trying to sign people up at the register for discounts.

[Diamond_Dog]

67. Thank you LisaM. You get it. Demanding credit just to get basic services holds many people back.

[Prairie Gates]

68. Thank you!

I was also over the

Jeez!

[Callie1979]

113. I agree except for #4. Unused cards shouldn't affect your rating.

My score has been above 800 for years & I only use 2 cards exclusively. I charge everything & pay off total balances every month;
But I've got 3 others I USED to use(no annual fee) still open with a zero balance. It counts as "available credit" but nothing else. Closing them alters the "debt to credit ratio" to a worse number. Thats what I was told by my banker anyway.
People also need to know your number may change DAILY based on your balances.

[sinkingfeeling]

75. Mine dropped when I paid off my mortgage. They will also ding someone if their credit usage

drops below a certain percentage of their available credit line. I watch mine go up and down when I use a card to book a foreign tour (usually $6K to $12K) and then pay it off on the next statement.

[ProfessorGAC]

115. That Happens A Lot

There is a presumption in their scoring models that paying off a mortgage will lead to upgrading to a bigger, newer house & a need for more borrowing.
It's a silly presumption because huge number of people pay off their loan with zero intention of moving on.
But, I've heard dozens of cases like what you described. I was heavily involved in credit unions for a long time.

[mainer]

88. So true!

You can have millions in assets, but if you have no debt and no mortgages, it will hurt your rating.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

58. Yeah, sure, but more amazing is that our

financial & personal info is routinely provided to these particularly advantaged businesses (who repeatedly fail to properly safeguard it leading to loads of identify theft) without our permission! Who decided to give this amazing power to them?

[Callie1979]

112. Its amazing how many dont know how to use a checking account.

They just cant keep their balance straight.

[PJMcK]

20. Not even close

Your post is too simplistic. Have you ever worked in finance?!

But whatever.

Banks and lenders have far more complex algorithms than the bills an individual pays.

[not fooled]

23. And corporations can use the threat of damaging your credit score

to coerce consumers into paying unfair charges or other scams so as to not "endanger" their credit rating. It's the MFing Sword of Damocles hanging over every 'Murican's head. What a racket!

[PeaceWave]

35. What are these threats and scams you're referring to?

Please provide a concrete example so we can discuss.

[NickB79]

66. Declaring bankruptcy is always coached with "it will destroy your credit"

So people who should probably declare bankruptcy (because it's impossible to work their way out by that point) delay it and dig themselves into a deeper hole out of fear of credit destruction.

And when they do declare bankruptcy, and their credit is trash, they have to turn to high interest payday loans that scam them out of thousands of dollars because of shady business practices.

That's what I've seen.

[intheflow]

42. And if you get into a car accident,

and your medical bills are sky-high, you’re out of work for a year, lose your job, too bad! By the time you’re well enough to get a new car, your credit score is in the trash. You also have to look for a new place to live but because you work a white collar job in a city you won’t be able to get a place in that area because even though you have a new job that pays boodles, your credit score dings you as a bad risk.

Look, I’m not advocating not paying your bills, but we treat poor people like shit in this country and many of us are only a paycheck or major disaster away from ruin.

[KG]

73. went to buy a vehicle , it had been 8 years since my last car note. that hurt my credit score

it's a bit more complicated just paying bills on time.

[obamanut2012]

83. Lol not true

[ck4829]

84. LOL! Good one!

I paid off my student loans and it did not tick up a single point.

[meadowlander]

91. If you never buy anything on credit, you'll have a shitty credit score

which then makes it hard to rent a house or get a loan for a car. It's a scam to force people to get credit cards and use them.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

103. Nope

I recently bought two cars. Took out a loan to get the rebates and then paid the loan in full the next month. My credit score went down for a variety of reasons (I had less debt, I had loans closed so my average age of debt went down, some other BS thing).

It's not a score that just says you pay off loans. It is a score that says you like having debt at the right ration of your income while holding some credit open for emergencies and you pay things off relatively timely. It's a scam.

[spapeggy]

105. What were your parents credit score

When they bought their house?

[keep_left]

7. I recall writer/historian Morris Berman mentioning how US passports...

...were rarely held by many Americans until after 9/11, when a lot of travel laws and policies changed. Until 2002, the number of Americans with a passport was something like 15%. Since then, those numbers have increased quite a bit, though I wonder how many in the population have just a passport card (an ID acceptable for domestic travel) vs. a full passport book (required for international travel).

Americans historically didn't carry passports because they seldom if ever left the country. The real question is, do Americans not travel outside the US because they aren't interested in doing so, or rather is it because our increasingly precarious employment and shrinking benefits make it nearly impossible for the average citizen to travel internationally? Berman felt that the latter situation was much more likely. (He emigrated to Mexico in 2006).

[Old Crank]

9. I didnot have a passport until the late 1990s.

When I was in the AF I was stationed overseas and traveled with my orders. In 77 I returned to the US from Greece and have 4 country entrance stamps on a flimsy sheet of paper with no picture or signature.

Tines have changed.

[mwmisses4289]

13. Mr. Berman is probably on the right track.

For many Americans, foreign travel has always be out of reach. As a teen and young woman, I wanted to visit Europe, but even had I been able to do the hostel thing, the cost of airfare or a transatlantic cruise to get there was way out of my budget.

[PJMcK]

21. I've had a U.S. passport since I was 14

It's the best ID that exists.

Plus I can travel almost anywhere anytime.

In spite of your post, keep left, most Americans don't travel more than a couple of hundred miles from their homes let alone overseas.

A major reason for Americans' xenophobia is because they don't know ANYTHING about the rest of the world.

Prove me wrong!

[keep_left]

29. Your remark about xenophobia is exactly Berman's point.

He says so explicitly in an interview I heard. Unfortunately, many Americans aren't particularly curious about the world.

[OldBaldy1701E]

77. Why should they be?

After an aggressive diet of propaganda that says, "We are the BEST in the UNIVERSE!!", why should they care? If we are , in fact, that great, shouldn't they be discarding their way of life and becoming clones of our society? Why is that not happening, I wonder?

I mean, being near 'god-like'... if you believe the hype we put out...

[Jilly_in_VA]

104. I found out last year

that I had to jump through so many hoops to get a Real ID driver's license here in VA that it was just easier to get a passport. I can use that to get on a plane to anywhere, in or out of the country.

[Kali]

36. I think you mean REAL ID

passport card is for land and sea travel to select countries, REAL ID is for domestic travel. (passport card can be used for domestic travel too)

[keep_left]

40. Yeah, I've forgotten some of the details (this was post-9/11, after all)...

...but I think that a lot of people started getting passports because the requirements to get a Real ID were at one point completely absurd (much more difficult to fulfill than passport requirements). Also, a lot of the more libertarian-oriented states dragged out the Real ID legal process for years (a couple of decades in some cases). Since a passport has always been the common denominator for travel ID, a lot more people started getting them in the years after 9/11.

[Old Crank]

61. The Real ID law was passed in 2005

Then the regs had to get written.
CA was one of the foot dragging states. Have no idea why.

[hunter]

78. It increases the number of drivers without licences or insurance...

... and this causes problems for everyone. The immigration status, actual birth name, or current residence of my fellow drivers doesn't matter to me. I just want to know they passed a driving test and have insurance. Putting up barriers to that doesn't make the world a better place.

Real ID is Nazi "papers please" bullshit.

Did the New Years Day attackers have Real ID?

[Old Crank]

86. You can still get a CA license

And not the Real ID version. So that shouldn't impact the number of unlicensed drivers.
I'm letting mine go. When I travel I use a passport. To rent a car in the US I'll use my German DL.

[hunter]

89. That's why California has not required Real ID.

I don't have it on my California Drivers Licence because I don't support it.

Real ID is typical Heritage Foundation / Project 2025 bullshit. It's a potential tool of political oppression that does not increase the security of anyone .

[DFW]

141. I use my German DL to rent in the USA too

There are “tourist package deals” that are available to “visitors” from overseas. They are cheaper than what the rental companies offer American renters. At the counter at the airport in the US, all they ask for is a driver’s license from the country you rented from, a valid credit card (from anywhere) and the flight you came to the USA on, which is redundant, since you already had to give this when you made the reservation.

[Old Crank]

142. I'll have to look into that.

Are they with major car rental companies or separate companies that broker with car rental companies?

[DFW]

143. The contracts and vouchers are usually issued by TUI

But you can book the rentals at any competent travel agency. Have your flight booked first! The voucher arrives. Few days later. Rentals are usually with Alamo, sometimes Avis. I assume others, too, depending upon what kind of vehicle you rent. We usually have a LOT of family come for short stays with us, so we need bigger vehicles than we drive in Europe. They take some getting used to. It feels like I’m driving a Sherman tank!

[Old Crank]

144. Some of them are that size.

Last time back we were upgraded to a Volkswagen ATLAS. What a monster. Takes getting used to. For me, they all do since I have no car. I spend 5-10 setting up mirrors, seats, and finding all the controls before driving off.

[DFW]

145. We have trouble finding where all the buttons and switches are, too.

Most of the bigger vehicles at the rental agencies are US made, and in Germany, we drive locally made cars.

[IronLionZion]

39. Certain types of Americans are more traveled than others

the ones with family or business ties to other countries would travel more than the MAGA types. There are young Americans who like to study abroad or join peace corps. Lower income Americans are less likely to have a passport or even consider overseas travel.

[keep_left]

43. That's no doubt true. But see also posts #21 and #29...

...and check out some of Morris Berman's writing and interviews if you are so inclined. Berman argues that Americans in general are just not at all curious about the world and have become very inward-looking, and he provides considerable evidence for his claims.

I would recommend to any DUer the first book in Berman's "America trilogy", The Twilight of American Culture (2000). The book received considerable acclaim at the time, and it's a quick read. It also encompasses many of the themes discussed here and everyday at DU.

[LisaM]

94. You didn't need one to go to Canada. Not sure about Mexico.

Last edited Sun Jan 5, 2025, 02:15 PM - Edit history (1)

So you could travel outside of the country without one in some cases.

[keep_left]

99. Not quite sure what you're saying--do you mean that...

...a passport was not required of US citizens at Canadian border crossings? I think that may have been true quite some time ago, but I also think that hasn't been the case for some time as well. Mexico I don't know about...I vaguely recall that the passport card was OK for cruises and border crossings but not air travel. But it's been years since I traveled without a passport, even domestically, so I'm not really current when it comes to these things.

Morris Berman's point is that in the days before 9/11, very few Americans (15%) carried passports, because very few ever traveled outside the country. (That number increased somewhat after 9/11 because of changes in the law). Berman argues, with some convincing evidence, that many--and maybe most--Americans are just not too curious about the world. This argument is pervasive throughout Berman's entire "America trilogy" of books.

FFI, see this link: https://democraticunderground.com/100219874593#post43

[LisaM]

101. You didn't need a passport to go into Canada until a few years ago.

Things started changing after 9/11, but even then the requirement wasn't immediate. (Sorry for the typo in my subject line, I fixed it).

In fact, I don't think I have ever used a passport to get into Canada, though I got my most recent passport in 2018 and I think it was a requirement by then, or you at least needed real ID. You may be able to get into Canada now with a real ID if you live in a state with a land or water border with Canada.

My larger point is that Americans did travel outside of the US to some extent without passports prior to 9/11. I've been to Canada dozens of times.

[KSNY]

10. No (or very low) tuition in college too!

[FirstLight]

12. What sucks is that now, most countries won't accept us.

Im too old to relocate to another country, im disabled, have a chronic autoimmune disease and even though I m back in college i doubt i could go abroad for school.
If I make it to a Master's program, I might have a shot. Id have to sell my house and everything else to afford it. Even then, I probably couldn't get a job to ensure expat status

[Old Crank]

16. Most European Universities are free

Not counting room and board if you qualify.
I can't speak to your situation, but it is much easier to get a work permit and then a residence visa as a high value immigrant, college educated.

It is easier for younger people to make the jump.

[FirstLight]

24. Im finishing my BA at 55

It's probably going to be another 2 years before I graduate... But I'm studying Anthropology and my dream is to see the caves at Lascaux...

[Old Crank]

60. I went there about ten plus years ago.

You get to see the exact replication.
In that region there are plenty of sites of anthropological interest.

About the BA. Good for you. It took me 10 years and 4 schools to get mine.
If you have an interest in employment here start exploring. for many STEM degrees you may not need a language requirement for the job. You will to get residency though. But it buys you 3 to 5 years to learn.

Keep plugging away.

[Old Crank]

14. In Germany for 9 plus years now.

This is the 4th country I have lived in.

Taxes are higher and the weather isn't as good as the SF Bay area. I'm still slugging it out learning German.

But the rest... I live within walking distance of 5 bakeries and a pastry shop, 3 grocery stores, one being organic, a meat market. I'm 5 minutes to a bus stop and 10 from the subway. I mostly bike around because it is easy and safe. I do my shopping by bike mostly. We moved 3 years ago and my doctor is now 10 minutes away by bike. No payment for her at the point of service. My hospital stay for gall stones the removal of the bladder was 10€ per night.
People here don't go bankrupt from medical bills.

[mitch96]

71. An interesting take on a German girl living in the US for 6 years. Difference between

the two countries.. Her brother was amazed that Americans drive everywhere, not walk.
The commercial bread sucks, Healthcare is expensive. etc

https://www.youtube.com/@FelifromGermany/videos

[Laurelin]

82. My gall bladder removal in the Netherlands was free

I had to pay for parking and Tylenol. Ultrasound, blood work, surgery, anesthesia, a night in the hospital and anti emetic meds were all free.

[Callie1979]

110. Yes, my Mexican plumber's sister in Mex was robbed while on vacation last week

He said it was cartel members Took all their money AND their car. And they were in Acapulco! He said "They called the police but they'll never get anything back"
Yes we have robberies here too, but not on that level & not where the cops just say "oh well; that sucks. Go home"

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. There is plenty of racism and anti-immigrant hatred abroad

It’s one of the reasons the far right has made significant gains in many countries in the past few years.

Yes, there are many things in other countries that are better than the US, but let’s not ignore their struggles either.

[betsuni]

50. Proof that strong social safety nets, universal health care, low inequality, low "economic anxiety"

doesn't stop right-wing parties, anti-immigrant racism and other bad things. Anybody who thinks American right-wing voters would *poof* turn into progressives and vote Democratic if only they weren't innocent victims of economic anxiety:

[yardwork]

74. That's a good point.

[Blue_Tires]

26. They should just be thankful they have the money to move abroad

[Yavin4]

28. There's a lesson here for the Democratic party if they would only listen.

More money for public investments makes life cheaper for all Americans.

[pansypoo53219]

41. i have been to denmark twice. i was epals w/ an older danish man.

denmark was so happy. i never heard a siren. saw no police car. even a drug dealer i encountered in a park was polite. sigh. i never get asked if i want to buy drugs.

[timvrip]

44. Believe me

It’s no pipe dream. I retired to France in 2018. Things are way better here even with the recent prime minister turmoil.
The national strikes can be a hassle sometimes, but you begin to appreciate the solidarity the people have.
Yes, Americans are blinded by the idea of everything is best at home.
It’s total BS !

[GoneOffShore]

49. We did the same thing - Been here since 2018 and now have our 10 year cards

So often American tourists are amazed when they talk to someone who actually lives here.

[Melon]

46. I spend a large portion of every year working abroad...

Healthcare for low level things in the UK is accessible. Surgery or anything complicated takes 6 months plus. Horrible waits for what is basic in the US. The quality of care is also not to the US standard.

There are benefits but I would never choose Germany or the UK over the US for just about anything.

[stollen]

53. I got a kidney transplant in Germany

I got it when needed as I had a donor though was on dialysis for 4 months. It cost 25,000 euro. My husband's was 6000 euro.

[Old Crank]

62. The NHS got cronicaly underfunded

By 12 years of Torry rule. Things were tight before but now it is much worse. It will be hard to dig out of the mess.

[róisín_dubh]

135. Are you a UK resident or citizen?

I’m a US citizen and a UK resident.
I wouldn’t move back to the US if you paid me.
It’s a violent, angry hellscape. I wouldn’t come back if I didn’t have family. I cannot wait until the day I can surrender my citizenship so I don’t have to deal with the stupid fucking taxation system.
The only thing I can’t get sorted in the UK is a Xanax prescription for my flight anxiety. GPs don’t seem to like to prescribe it 🤷🏻‍♀️
Luckily, I also qualify for an Italian passport, so if my admittedly crap salary in the UK doesn’t improve, I’ll move to an EU country, once I have my UK passport.

[Melon]

149. No. I just fly in for work and have two employees there

They both want me to move them to the US if I can make it happen. Almost stagnant GDP….low salaries equivalent to our Mississippi. As many things that are done wrong in the US, there are opportunities for success for the driven.

Musk is working to ruin our relationship.

[LeftInTX]

48. I read the reviews and many of them are not expats!

Last edited Sun Jan 5, 2025, 03:06 AM - Edit history (1)

They're traveling or they're on work visas, some moved from other countries to the US, some I can't even figure out, so I didn't include them. So if they are in a country on a work visa, they are not expats!!! Because if those countries are so great why aren't they still living there? Maybe they can't live there. They all say great things, but many are just visiting and they are not permanent residents.

"I went to Panama on vacation and accidentally went without my asthma inhaler. I had to do was walk into a pharmacy — with no prescription required — and Albuterol was $11. In the US, with a required prescription, it's about $150."

2."I lived in Northern England for a time on a student work abroad visa.

"I lived in Korea for a few years,

I've lived in Germany and loved it.

I'm a Scottish guy who lived in America for a few years.

. I spent several months in France,

I haven't moved (yet), but I am in Germany now,

When I lived in Europe, we bartered. (Rephrasing)

In the late '90s, I studied in Paris, France (Now lives in the US complaining about paycheck, rent etc)

"We lived in Brazil for seven years for work-related reasons.

_______
In other words, great places, but they probably won't take old broke people permanently. They make it seem like it's so easy, but they aren't really expats.

[DFW]

54. It's all relative, and no place is a perfect paradise

Other countries do not want people coming in who are just there to mooch off their taxpayers ("everything is free there, let's move there!" ). NOTHING is "free" there. Their taxpayers pay for it. Their government economists try to base taxes on what is necessary to provide for their people. Their people, not "their people plus 15% extra" from other countries coming in, having paid zero into their economies and mostly not even speaking their language, thus requiring additional taxpayer-funded assistance.

Take Germany, for example, where I live. Not "no" guns. Fewer guns. But, in the name of "tolerance," successive German governments have turned a blind eye to the worse elements among many immigrant groups, leading to organized crime clans from Lebanon, Albania, Romania, Morocco, etc,, who seem to have no trouble at all in procuring firearms. To get a gun legally in Germany, you have to go though a tedious process. To get a gun illegally in Germany, you only have to know the right places to ask. The difference is that most people here (so far!) feel no need for them. No angry assholes? Ever seen the initials "AfD?" People are mostly kind. No more so than in the USA, I find. Health care does cost less here than in the USA. It is NOT free. Though all of my income is in the USA, I pay 50% of my income in German taxes, and get NOTHING in return. When I moved here, I was directed to a private health insurer, who quoted me €30,000 a year (13 years ago!), which did not even cover everything. Doctors, nurses, teachers, none of them work for zero salary, living under bridges and begging for food. Their pay is financed differently from how it is financed in the USA, but they DO get paid, and the money does not materialize out of thin air.

It is true that we get 30 days paid vacation. Geography helps make cheap vacations affordable for many, too, though the "McVacation" quality and the ensuing horror stories regularly appearing in the news must give some people pause. Some nearby countries, like Italy and Spain, are even making plans to limit the number of noisy, uncultured visitors from the north (not just Germany), who make for much noise, much pollution, and little revenue.

The unions sometimes fight for better conditions for their members. Sometimes, they are exploited for the glory and headlines of their leaders. The vaunted public transportation is often the first to be hit. The unions cripple the lives of the working class who don't have cars, which are far more expensive to own and operate than in the USA. German public transportation has declined in quality in recent years, and their train system--on which I depend, by the way--is in tatters. No road rage? In a country with high (or no) speed limits on the Autobahn, and fast cars made by a domestic industry needing to sell them to survive? You gotta be kidding. Better food? Like in the USA, it depends on who makes it, and what they put into it. Fifty years ago, one didn't see many obese young people in the cities. Now you do. They have embraced the fast food culture of the USA with a vengeance, and it shows. The food is only better if you seek out what is good for you--just like in the USA. Luckily, they do forbid awful ingredients like High Fructose Corn Syrup (why anyone still buys Smuckers brand jam and marmalade in the USA is beyond me), but other suspected carcinogens like the artificial sweetener aspartame are in "sugar-free" products everywhere.

And then there is the language issue. All those "happy" people in Denmark or the Netherlands? They all speak perfect Danish or Dutch.
So will anyone with a serious intent to build a life there. Yes, they all learn English in school--as a foreign language, not their own. How well accepted would be someone be, moving into your neighborhood and speaking no language other than Dutch? What would their job prospects be?

There is a LOT involved in moving to another country. One can't just pack up their stuff, buy a one-way ticket, and say, "here I am, welcome me with open arms!" They won't.

[LeftInTX]

57. Thank you! I'm glad your showed up. If you read the reviews, many aren't even "ex-pats"

They're vacationers or people who lived in foreign countries temporarily via work visas. My sister is in Qatar and she loves it because she's pampered (her work pays for everything) , but when she retires, it's back to the US. She loses her visa and she absolutely cannot afford to live there on her Social Security and retirement. (Which will be over $100,000)

[DFW]

59. Ignorance is bliss

I get all sorts of rebuttals from armchair internet warriors quoting this website or that website, showing me how full of crap I am, even though I speak German (and 8 other European languages), live here, married to a German, and contend with a tax nightmare you can't believe (the Double Taxation Treaty is full of holes that put me in an effective 73% income tax bracket). I FINALLY have an ally in the US Senate (as of yesterday!) who will push for residence-based taxation (i.e. you pay taxes where you live, regardless of your nationality), putting the USA in line with the rest of the world (except Eritrea). German taxes are theoretically only a max of 42%, but when you count all the supplemental add-ons, it's a de facto 50%. In Texas, where my income is, I paid the 39.6% US top rate. OK, I knew about and accepted the higher German rate when I moved there. I was NOT prepared for the USA to take out a certain portion of my income as taxes no matter what, and then have the Germans say, "that's your problem, not ours, we're taxing that income again." I have been arguing with them for 13 years, and since the question is too complicated for the German bureaucrats, they keep burying it until the next case worker comes along, who decides they can't handle it either, and buries it again. Welcome to EU bureaucracy.

[Old Crank]

63. Your tax issues aren't our experience.

We have been in Germany for over 9 years and pay the German taxes first, then US if the German tax doesn't take enough. My income, retirement, comes from the US and while my wife was working hers came from Germany.
I can see why Germany wants the tax, since you earn it in Germany. But it seems strange that you are having problems with the US tax.

[DFW]

76. It has to do with the source of the income

Certain categories of US income to US citizens are by law taxed in the USA, no discussion. That’s OK if the Germans recognize it and don’t want to tax it again. But that is not the case. Then there’s the Roth IRA. I was still a legal resident of the US when I made the conversion, paid the whole chunk of taxes due. The Germans are saying, “well, pay us again!” After paying the IRS 39.6%, I do not agree with paying the Germans another 50%. That does not leave a whole hell of a lot over. Heil Honecker.

I earn only a small portion of my income in Germany. I have to submit a detailed accounting at the end of every year of each of the 365 days. There are six categories: US working, Us not working, Germany working, Germany not working, Third country working, Third country not working. Each is treated separately. “Germany working” is only a small percentage. Most of my work week is spent in France, Belgium, Switzerland, Spain, NL, etc. Germany is a convenient geographical location, but it is not where most of my actual work is.

If I were to retire, that would simplify some issues, but not my Roth IRA. One German accountant advised me to move back to the USA for 367 days and take a 100% payout, and then come back. How practical. Plus, I’m not retired. I was discussing this with Mark Kelly on Friday night, and he agreed: “and then do WHAT?” Exactly. I’d rather die of overwork than of boredom. When he retired from the Navy, Mark faced the same choice, and Gabby fully supported his decision to go full steam into something else. US Senator is not a part time job.

I’m only 72, and not ready to retire. I speak German, Dutch, French, Catalan, Spanish and a few other European languages, so I’m comfortable in my surroundings here. If I move back to the US, I want it to be on my terms, not forced by German bureaucrats. My wife, who IS retired, has less free time than she did when she was working. Her mom is 97 luves in a small village up north with no public transportation, and needs constant care, but will not live in assisted living, most of which is awful. That is a 3 hour drive in each direction. Plus, our younger daughter has two small girls (4 and 6) down in the Taunus hills, and though they have a competent and dedicated nanny, she does not live close by, and does get sick on occasion. That is a 2 hour drive in each direction. I tremble every time she leaves, but once a social worker, always a social worker, I guess. She is my age, and we will both be 73 later this year. Her government pension is now up to about €1400 a month, and that’s taxable, so in other words, nearly nothing. That is another reason I am fighting my own battle. The German government leaves her nothing to fall back on if I’m no longer there.

[Mr.Bill]

95. Thank you for your informative posts in this thread.

Of course, you are not a typical American (no one is), and your income is obviously much higher than mine. I am resigned to live in the USA because I know I can't afford to move, and speak no foreign languages. My wife and I are under the threshold income-wise of paying any taxes, state or federal. We are 71 and 73 and live on my grandson's property and we make the payment on our manufactured home, which is about the market value it would rent for. We are not rich, but comfortable.

The biggest inequity we are experiencing is my wife's pension is around $800 a month. This is her "reward" for spending 40 years in nursing, much of it in unions. Her brother retired from being a firefighter at 55 with a pension of over $10,000 a month after taxes are deducted. I think I don't have to explain to you that RNs take much more risk daily at work than firefighters do periodically.

[DFW]

97. While I respect the risks firefighters are subjected to

The difference between $800 a month for an RN and $10,000 (post tax!) per month for a firefighter is totally unjustified, and I know all too well what hours a nurse puts in. I’m already pissed at my wife’s meager (taxable!) €1400 per month German pension. But that’s an internal German issue, not one I have any business getting involved in.

[Old Crank]

109. No fun.

The Roth thing. Ouch. We have ours in rollover IRAs and since we jumped fast didn't havetime to move stuff to Roth IRAs. Based on your experience it might have beena good idea not to have converted. Our Steuerberater has convinced teh Finazamt that withdrawals from my IRA are pension funds so they are taxed a bit lower, along with my Social Security (Government Pension)

I'll be 74 in March and we are worrying about inheritance taxation and how it will affect our developmently delayed daughter. It is really a game to figure out what the tax people will do.

Best of luck.

[DFW]

124. Thanks! My prospects are vague at best.

That was a good move on your part not to convert to a Roth IRA. I thought that since I had paid my taxes in full, and prior to making my application for a permanent residence visa, that the Germans would leave me alone on that. The text of the Double Taxation Treaty says that an American citizen in the USA paying taxes in the USA, cannot be taxed again by the Germans on the same income/assets. How was I to know the Germans would ignore that? Also, distributions from S-Corps are taxed in the USA prior to distribution, and are considered partnerships, which the Germans do not double-tax. So, the Germans have re-labeled the partnership income “dividends” so that they can double tax them. S-Corp income isn’t mentioned in the Double Taxation Treaty, so the Germans feel like they can just take it whether it was already taxed in the USA or not. The only thing they agree on is that the USA taxes interest income earned in the USA, and the Germans get to tax Social Security income in Germany.

Oddly enough, on one thing, the Germans were more lenient. I had bought, on a lark, 2 kilograms of iridium for €11,000 in 2011. I sold it about ten years later for €150,000. All I had to do was prove to the Germans that I had owned it for over a year, and the gain was tax-free in Germany. But not so in the USA. I guess I am an idiot, but I reported the whole thing to the IRS, and had to pay 31.8% on the gain in the USA. It still left me with a decent bit of cash, so I didn’t complain.

[Callie1979]

117. Would your tax situation change dramatically if you moved to another country?

Austria? France?
Or is another country simply not feasible.

[DFW]

131. Good question!

France, not much of an improvement, and they do have a wealth tax, though I don’t know if it is imposed on resident foreigners. Austria, no clue, but we have no ties to the place anyway. NL is crowded and expensive, and I don’t know the tax situation for resident foreigners.

Switzerland might be an option, but the language drives my wife nuts, and she has no friends there. The taxes there are FAR lower, but the cost of living is beyond the asteroid belt. They want you to be financially secure and proficient in at least one of their three major languages. I could do it, but my wife would have her issues. If the Dutch are not as greedy as the Germans, NL would be my next option. My wife doesn’t speak the language, but she understands a lot of it, since she is from the far northwest of Germany. Her dad’s first language was “Pladdütsch,” or “low German,” and that is already halfway to Dutch. We have lots of friends in Holland, so it’s familiar territory.

At this point, it would be an immense emotional strain on my wife to leave our part of Germany, especially with her mom and one of our daughters there. The financial strain on me will have to take a back seat to that, since if she’s not happy, I can never be happy, either.

[Callie1979]

116. THANK YOU!!! A very detailed explanation.

[malaise]

65. It's simple

The US is a capitalist market - many other countries are societies where human beings come before capitalist greed.

[Tom Dyer]

69. Can confirm.

Panama.

[madville]

70. I stopped reading here:

“Full disclosure: I left the US nearly 15 years ago. I now live in Poland and own my own business with full civil rights and privileges."

Full civil rights in Poland? Lol

[ancianita]

118. Maybe you should read up a bit more on Poland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland

Particularly the section on "Law" and its constitutional history.

[madville]

123. Polish Abortion Law Violates Human Rights

“civil rights”, ok….

A comprehensive investigation reveals the devastating consequences of Poland's restrictive abortion law on women's health and bodily autonomy,

https://reproductiverights.org/un-cedaw-report-poland-abortion/

[ancianita]

127. So does American Abortion Law.

Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, 597 U.S. 215 (2022)


If you want to base civil liberties on just one law, then at least be fair.

[madville]

128. Moving the goal posts

The original statement in the OP was that they moved to Poland where they now enjoy “full civil rights”. That’s not a true statement. Could possibly argue better rights, but few would consider the absence of a right to choose as having full civil rights.

[ancianita]

132. Nothing has to be 100% true to be true. This isn't science and scientific theory; it's society.

DiamondDog, who I presume to be male, said

"...own my own business with full civil rights and privileges."

-- so it's also fair to put civil rights within the context of his sentence's business context. Regardless, it's not an lol statement any more for Poland than for the U.S.

The whole nation of Poland was baptized a Catholic nation in 966.
Today its 38.4 million Polish -- 85% of which call themselves Catholic -- have an understandably Catholic majority voting bloc. So what you call civil rights or human rights are defined by that nation itself.
Here in the U.S. there are 72 million Catholics -- almost double the whole population of Poland -- who also vote their moral beliefs.

As for separation of church and state, Poland is a christian nation while the U.S.'s laws tend toward a "friendly" separation of church and state. So for the U.S. the issue of civil/human rights is as much a religious issue as a legal issue. To that point, Pope John Paul II, in his 2005 letter to the Bishops of France proposed that not only is Separation of State and Church permissible, it is in fact a part of the Church's Social Doctrine.

[Clouds Passing]

80. Scamigarchs

[JI7]

81. There is no Scam. It's people voting for Republicans that always oppose public investment

that is the problem. They use racism and other bigotry by claiming various minority groups will get something.

Also this is painting a picture of these other places that isn't totally accurate. They are better than the US when it comes to pubic investment but they are having many issues that someone there was a visit might not experience.

But the main thing is their populations tend to support public programs and pay taxes to fund it.

And in the US we don't have nearly the support. Look to what happened even Hillary tried to get health care and Obama with the death panels.

The problem is cultural.

[Diamond_Dog]

85. Yes. Republicans manage to convince people

that investment in the public good (infrastructure, education, health care, housing) means people who don’t deserve such things will be getting something for nothing.

[LauraInLA]

120. As European societies become more diverse, it's interesting to watch this same attitude rise -- "they"

don’t belong/don’t pay in so they don’t deserve the benefits “we’ve” created. I don’t think this is uniquely an American problem.

[ck4829]

87. K&R

[Deep State Witch]

90. This One Was Me

Well, not ACTUALLY me, but close enough.

3."I went to Panama on vacation and accidentally went without my asthma inhaler. I had to do was walk into a pharmacy — with no prescription required — and Albuterol was $11. In the US, with a required prescription, it's about $150."

We were in Santorini, Greece in September. I was having trouble breathing because of the high altitude and the diesel exhaust. My inhaler chose that moment to run out. I walked into a "pharmakeia" and asked for an inhaler, and showed him mine. He reached behind the counter and gave me a box. I got that, an ankle brace for my hurt foot, and two Coke Zeroes for about 20 Euros.

[meadowlander]

93. The non-tourist version -

I'm on the public health system in New Zealand and take Albuterol. With a prescription (which requires a one time NZ$45 - US$25 copay to my GP), I can get a three pack for NZ$15 - US$8. US$150 for a refill for one asthma inhaler is legalised extortion.

[LauraInLA]

121. Luckily, the price in the U.S. has come down -- I believe thanks to the Biden administration.

[meadowlander]

92. My dad had a serious medical incident while visiting me in New Zealand

and I had to beg him to go to the emergency room because he was so worried the cost would bankrupt him. Turned out the only bill he received was $70 for the ambulance ride and that was a suggested donation to the charity that runs the ambulance service.

The doctors at the hospital were also horrified when he turned up with four laminated pages listing all the medications he was on and told him he probably didn't need to be on three quarters of them.

[snot]

96. "People are kind."

I think we've been failing to recognize how the stresses of survival here have contributed to strife and violence. With everything deregulated or captured by big business, we're left to fend for ourselves in more ways than it's humanly possible to keep up with – even when there are no unexpected difficulties (health problems, natural disasters, etc.), let alone when there are. It's not just the easily quantifiable things, like our gargantuan wealth and income gaps; there are huge externalized costs shifted onto the backs of the public, as we spend hours, days, and weeks of our lives trying to make the health insurance we're paying for work for us, or reading the fine print to try to avoid consuming toxic substances, or trying with dwindling success to restore our privacy settings after the latest updates, or reading the fine print on a plethora of energy utility plans from a host of middlemen to try to figure out a reasonable deal, or replacing refrigerators too cr*ppified to last more than 3 years, etc. etc.

I believe people are kind everywhere, given a decent chance; but a lot folks here are close to if not beyond the breaking point.

[dsc]

98. I am strongly considering leaving the country when I retire.

I am too old now to consider trying to start over in another country as a worker but in retirement I will have an income and it should go farther in another country. Assuming my health stays good, I intend to work for another 10 years. While by no means fluent I speak a little Spanish and can read it a bit more. Mexico or Costa Rica sound like lovely places.

[Deep State Witch]

137. Both Are Good

I have friends who have been in Costa Rica for 10 years. They come back to Baltimore twice a year to visit their adult children. They love it.

I also have a covenmate who is in the process of moving from Virginia to Mexico. I think it was in the works, but they stepped up the timetable because of the upcoming horror show. They're moving to an expat area somewhere.

[mike_c]

100. my daughter and her husband live in England...

I think it's been about ten years now. She has become a British citizen. I don't believe they will ever return to live in the US. They lived in Denmark for a couple years before moving to the UK, pre-brexit.

[DeepWinter]

106. OMg, whatever

":No guns. No angry assholes. No road rage. People are kind. Free or low cost quality healthcare. 30 days paid vacations. Public unions. Dependable public transportation. Better food ……. It all sounds like a pipe dream….."

No guns - yea, right. In a few countries. You can usually get a license easily. Guns are illegal in Austraalia. Illegal gun ownership is rampant in Australia. It's a wink and a nod situation once you leave the big cities.
No angry assholes - You need to get out and travel more. They're everywhere.
No road rage - Go to India, Asia. Fair warning.
People are kind - to a degree, just like here in the US.

Free or low cost quality healthcare - with tradeoffs. My Canadian Mother-In-Law has great healthcare, IF she can get an appointment. She needs a diabetes check up she's on a 6 month waiting list. No joke. So when she visits us in the US she gladly pays the extra because she can get it in on her 1 week visit no problem. Canada is not Utopia. Ask the Indigionous Canadians.

Dependable public transportation - Japan, tes. Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, no.

Better food - Different food. I think you meant safer?

[Diamond_Dog]

108. These were all tenets of the stories in the articles

Not my personal opinion or experience.

[thucythucy]

119. Are you saying your Canadian mother-in-law can call up a doctor here in the US and get seen within a week?

If so, I'm rather astonished. That certainly isn't my experience, or that of pretty much anyone I know.

Just as an example: I have two dear friends, here in the US, both of whom have serious cancer diagnoses. THEY can't get an appointment within one week, hell they often can't get a doctor to CALL them in less than three to five days. They both have health insurance, so that isn't the issue. But if they want to be seen within a week, it most often requires a trip to the ER, which is fraught with its own problems.

Add to this they--and pretty much everyone I know with any sort of serious health issue--need constantly to fight with nameless health insurance "gate keepers" who routinely deny tests and procedures and medications their doctors deem necessary. This includes, in one instance, periodic scans to determine if there's been growth of existing tumors or the appearance of malignancies elsewhere. Her insurer denied the need for such scans--the reason being "we only cover these tests as diagnostic tools, and since you've already been diagnosed we don't think you need to be scanned anymore" or insurance company gibberish to that effect. Her oncologist was eventually able to get that particular denial reversed, but it took almost two months, and in the meantime she had to wonder if her cancer wasn't getting worse, and if so whether delaying additional treatment might not significantly shorten her life.

And I won't even go into mental health access--or the lack thereof--or how Medicare still doesn't cover dental.

Of course Canada isn't a Utopia. No nation is. And yes, indigenous people there have been royally screwed. Then again our own treatment of Native Americans hasn't been all that great--to say the least--as I hope you would agree.

Dependable public transit: Japan yes. Also Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Ireland, Belgium, Denmark...I'm sure there are more but these are places I can attest to personally. Are there countries with equivalent or worse public transit than the USA? Yes. Of course. But there are enough countries that do so much better than we do that, here too, to claim the USA "is #1" is ludicrous. Considering too how we often claim to be the richest country in the world, you would think we could manage to build and maintain a decent transit system that isn't entirely dependent on cars.

[LauraInLA]

122. Re. Health care quality and availability in US vs Canada

I believe availability in the U.S. often depends on geographic location/metro size — I never had difficulty getting specialist appointments for my mother or sister within a week, but we live in the Los Angeles area. In smaller cities, towns, rural areas waits can be much longer. But I do know several families from BC, Ontario, and Quebec who travel to the U.S. for medical care without delays. Interestingly, in Canada the shortage of doctors can mean that even in the Toronto metro area wait times are still substantially longer. Even trying to get onto the list for a GP can be extremely difficult, as our relatives moving from Ottawa to the Maritimes have discovered. Their mother with COPD has been discouraged from joining them because of the difficulty she’d have with medical care.

[thucythucy]

146. I think the situation, while apparently better than in Canada,

is getting worse in the US. There seems to be a growing shortage of health care professionals due to any number of factors.

I know some doctors, fed up with the increasing power of insurers, are taking early retirement. This happened with my own GP who told me she retired after she found herself spending as much time doing paperwork for and on the phone with insurance company people as she was with her patents. I also just recently had to wait four months for a dental cleaning, because there's a shortage of dental hygienists in my area--which is fairly urban. There's also a nursing shortage of long standing which also seems to be getting worse.

And as you note, this is much worse in more rural areas. There's been a trend of smaller rural hospitals and practices being bought out by various conglomerates, including private equity firms, which then close them as cost cutting measures. This is happening even in some cities, In Boston, for example, Stewart Health Care has closed or is closing two hospitals and left their patients high and dry. Two other hospitals: Shriner's and St. Elizabeth's, have also closed. And there is a pronounced shortage of psychiatric beds, especially for children and adolescents, which seems to be nationwide.

Considering that the US pays more per capita than any other nation on earth, you would think we would be able to get a grip on these problems, which have been a long time coming. You'd think we'd also rank higher among industrialized nations in terms of life expectancy, infant and maternal mortality, and others. All of which belies the oft heard claim that ours is "the best health care system in the world." I suppose it depends on who you are, where you live, and how much money you have.

Anyway, best wishes and happy new year to you and yours.

[LauraInLA]

147. Agreed on all your points. Re. adolescent psychiatric care/beds...

a family member had serious issues during high school about five years ago. Even with “good” insurance and and FSA/HSA (can never remember which), it still cost thousands of dollars for residential and out-patient care (and many programs were devoted to substance abuse and less adapted for psychiatric issues). Sadly, at the residential program, we were the only family in our cohort who wanted our child to return home — the other families were sending their kids to treatment boarding schools, which also spoke to their wealth or willingness to sue their school districts for access.

Of particular note to me, the Danish founder of the outpatient program told us that the U.S. was more advanced than Europe in terms of adolescent psychiatric care. Assuming you have funds and access, of course, which may have been part of his reason for moving to the U.S. I was still a bit shocked, as I’d assumed that Scandinavian countries especially would be well up on adolescent care.

Happy new year to you and your loved ones!

[Lifeafter70]

148. In 2016 my son was diagnosed with ACC cancer

He had to wait over a month for an appointment at Keck in Los Angeles, in order to set a treatment plan. It was another month before his surgery was scheduled. When his cancer reacured in 2020 he waited another two months for an appointment with a cancer doctor who specializes in his particular cancer. They finally decided on gamma knife which took another month to get it scheduled. He now gets scans every 6 months, but needs to schedule them at least a month in advance. My other son who is disabled had to wait six months to get an appointment with a cardiologist. This is in Sacramento.
So yes there is a wait even in big cities. I'm happy your mom gets in quickly but it is not true for those who are on disability with chronic disease.

[LauraInLA]

150. I'm so sorry to hear about all the difficulties you've had -- I hope your children are both doing well!

Actually, my mother and sister had/have the chronic disease COPD — I’d wonder if Medicare helped reduce their response time, but I can’t see how. Actually, I’m recalling my mother had to wait a month for surgery on her abdominal aortic aneurysm, but that was pretty specialized. Maybe specialization and surgery are keys. It is definitely all a mess.

[stillcool]

151. Your experience is exceptional

I live in a state that has excellent health care, due to state laws. I am extremely grateful to live her, but what the insurance companies are doing to the health care system is debilitating. Doctors don't treat patients as much as insurance companies. I lost my husband a few months back, and had to move. I'm still trying to find a primary care physician. Don't know what kind of doctors you can get within a week...and without referrals? That's stunning...unless you're going to the emergency room. Do you have any pull in MA?

[LauraInLA]

152. I'm so sorry for your loss and that you're having such a hard time!

To be clear, I didn’t think anyone had mentioned appointments with *new* doctors, specifically. But I was able to get an MRI and an ultrasound and see a neurologist 1.5 weeks after I’d had a transient eschemic event. I’m left wondering if the Cedars-Sinai network in Los Angeles is unusually robust. And/or that we’ve been in the network for a long time at this point. Maybe that’s where we’ve been exceptionally lucky. The ER at our hospital is definitely overloaded, like everyone else, I’m sure.

[CrispyQ]

107. I highly recommend Michael Moore's movie, "Where to Invade Next."

A tongue- in-cheek look at ideals we've lost.

[bucolic_frolic]

126. We gotta do better at cuing all us DUers into the inside dope for the better deals

This OP but one example.

[Alberta Bound]

129. ...so, you're "leaving" the U.S. huh ?

(...first post since joining DU. ...long time lurker.)

I am an "Expat". A "real" Expat.
"Expat" means different things to different people. And, well yes, you could "move out" of the U.S. and take up residence elsewhere but technically, according to the U.S. Department of State AND Internal Revenue Service, you likely would remain as a U.S. citizen. In IRS parlance, by law (code not cited here), you would be defined as a "U.S. Person".

Having "moved" to Western Canada in 1976 from Pennsylvania (...I was divorced, no children, and young-ish) I met all of the Canadian requirements for immediate "Express Entry" to accept a job offer and take up probationary residence as a Canadian "Permanent Resident". [...probationary, meaning: behave yourself, we're watching you with our stink eye.]

I remained as a Permanent Resident, but still U.S. citizen until 1993 when I became a Canadian citizen, thus holding dual U.S./Canadian citizenship. Why ?...I believed there was some value or "comfort" in remaining legally "tethered" to the U.S. and my "homeland ". The desire to remain "tethered" was a personal struggle to reconcile...but why ?

Skipping over and omitting many details up to ~2016, it was largely due to the IRS "Offshore Voluntary Income Disclosure Program" (2008 ?) that I believed it necessary to, not only simplify U.S. Treasury reporting requirements (think FinCen, FatCa, FBARS, 1040's, etc.), but much more important, to eliminate forever, the extremely burdensome and likely very, very expensive legal work necessary to settle my estate affairs with the U.S. Government upon my death. And, it was in 2018 that I reached the decision to renounce my U.S. citizenship. [...renounce ?..relinquish ?...do your research.]

So, what does it cost to de-citizen yourself ? Short answer: depends. The complexity, breadth and depth, sources and forms of any U.S. income, assets and related financial entanglements will largely enable a qualified citizenship/immigration/tax attorney to scope out attorney's fees. My particular situation was as simple as it gets because since 1976 my only "tethers" to the U.S. were spiritual and psychological in nature. Thus, from 2018 to 2022 I was immersed, priority #1, in reading, cross referencing, building files, jumping through hoops, re-reading, ferreting out definitions (..so really, who is a "U.S. Person" ?), submitting forms, ad infinitum. So, to answer this paragraph's leading question...rather than paying $30, to $40, to $50,000 in legal and/or accounting fees, through perseverance, patience, and the determination to exit this world without burdening my family, the project cost $0, other than a few filing fees, copier and paper.

During 2022, having signed the Declaration of Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship at the Calgary, Alberta, U.S. Embassy, I then was officially a "real" "Expat", free and clear, otherwise designated by the IRS as a "Non-Resident Alien".

Now realize, everyone's situation is different regarding assets, financial entanglements, thresholds of frustration, timeline expectations, and personal attributes brought to the task; but, to promise yourself and declare to others that you're "leaving" or "moving out" of the U.S. does not adequately characterize one's intent, rather, the inference taken by those who have worked very hard or paid dearly to do it, is that most folks are quite ignorant of the process and ignorant enough in believing they're eligible to reside elsewhere.

[edhopper]

130. Just had my cousin

who has been to Europe once, tell me, who has been to Europe a dozen times, including the last three years, how bad things are in Europe compared to here.

[LogDog75]

134. My story from Englan

I was stationed in England from 1986 - 1988. We an English man who worked in warehouse and he had two sons with serious medical disabilities. His ob didn't pay a lot but he and his family took a two week vacation every year and through the country's healthcare system his boys medical needs were taken care met. If he were in the U.S., he'd be paying a lot for health insurance and the insurance would probably deny his boys the medical care they need. He and his family probably would be able to afford to take a vacation.

The thing I saw stationed in England and Germany, twice, was they had better work-life balance; although their taxes were higher they had a better standard of living, they were healthier, and had a better sense of belong to their community than American do. I've told friends, if my income was a bit higher, I wouldn't mind living in England or Germany.

[blueseas]

136. Who did vote??

Interesting Statistic

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/10-things-to-know-2024-presidential-election/
"Roughly 244 million Americans will be eligible to vote in 2024. The 2020 election saw record turnout of 66.6% of eligible voters. If we see a high turnout
again, more than 162 million ballots will be cast by November."

[mahina]

138. We must hold a vision for a better future for this country and our people. I'll start with 5* universal free childcare

and move to excellent universal single payer health care next.

Holding hope, but no method beyond the Democratic Party.